Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2015 March 22
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March 22
editWomen in Baseball, Pre-1900?
editHi, so the Women in baseball page gives a quick outline of female baseball players and executives, mostly from the 20s on, but I remember watching Ken Burns' Baseball, and there being some discussion of women's leagues from before the beginning of the live-ball era. There was one woman in particular who owned and played on her own team. I know there must sources, for Ken Burns to have worked from, but I can't seem to find any. Any help is appreciated! Anarchyshake (talk) 12:55, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- I don't know how well-documented the women's game is, but this is an 1868 illustration of women playing the game. There various other examples in google images. The Hall of Fame has a women's section and probably has data as well. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:17, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- Here is something about "bloomer girls" baseball,. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:22, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you, Baseball Bugs, the Hall of Fame is really helpful, and the blog post has some good references as well. It's certainly a good start. I still can't think of the name of the woman the Baseball documentary was talking about, but maybe I'll just have to rewatch it! Anarchyshake (talk) 23:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- Here is something about "bloomer girls" baseball,. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:22, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what "owning" a baseball team would have meant, before organized leagues. If you just have informal pick-up games, then you can own the equipment, but nobody "owns" the team if they are all unpaid, have no contracts, etc. StuRat (talk) 17:56, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- There's actually a long history of loosely-organized semi-pro leagues all across America from the 1860s onwards, StuRat so it was totally possible to "own" a team, though it probably didn't mean the same thing as it does now. Anarchyshake (talk) 23:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
Gynemorphising of male historical figures
editSo, I'm watching Sengoku Collection and have seen The Ambition of Oda Nobuna. While they're quite hilarious, I'm wondering if this practice of turning male historical figures (whether their own nation or foreign) into women and young girls exists outside of Japanese media. Also, when was the first instance of this? Japanese and/or foreign. Lastly, in Japan, has this kind of thing been done with male characters outside of the Sengoku Jidai? I should specify I mean just in books, TV shows, games, and movies. I'm sure there plenty of political comics that have done this. By the way, any grammar Metaxists that want to correct the phrase I used in the header, feel free. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 2 Nisan 5775 13:49, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- I can think of a reverse example, where female pharaohs would apparently strap on a pharaonic beard. StuRat (talk) 00:33, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- Well, that's just politics and Hatshepsut being Hatshepsut (though I still don't buy that whole TEDtalk about her memory being erased because she was a woman, and I'm a feminist). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 3 Nisan 5775 01:09, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- Tedtalks can be fun but a wikipedian would ask, where is the reliable source for it? (as it stands we don't know, occams razor might point to her memory being erased just cuz the new ruler wanted all the attention).Popish Plot (talk) 20:27, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- The hypothesis that is most accepted these days (or at least three years ago, haven't checked) by Egyptologists and archaeologists with an interest in the area (I kind of still have some), which that TEDtalk dismissed, is that her nephew and successor, Thutmose III, was supremely pissed over her assuming rule as Pharaoh and basically pushing him into the shadows. A while after he came to power he inflicted epic pwnage upon her memory to seek vengeance. As an archaeologist, I'm inclined to agree with your conclusion about using Occam's razor. It just makes sense. The TED Talk dismissed that whole idea saying, "Would someone really hold onto anger like that for thirty years?" Uhh... yes? They claimed that Egyptian nobles couldn't stomach the idea that a woman had ever ruled and so this blemish on their patriarchy needed to be erased from existence. While no one would question that Ancient Egyptian was a patriarchal society (and an arrogant one at that), I think it's a huge stretch to try and pin this whole thing on Hatshepsut's sex rather than just a really angry nephew (who went on to be one of Ancient Egypt's greatest badasses, but still). The most difficult thing to do (there's some pyramid about it somewhere) to do when trying to reconstruct prehistoric society is attempting to reconstruct their values and ideas, and a huge problem is that your own biases and what's considered to be societal norms at the time will impact any interpretation. So, I think that trying to dismiss the idea that someone, who most likely had a massive ego (you're a living god, so not a stretch), would hold onto such a massive slight against him in favour of some complex unsubstantiated hypothesis about a battle of the sexes is silly, and dishonest if you're trying to persuade people it's the truth without any real evidence. Anyway, that's my thought on the matter. I need some amaretto. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 4 Nisan 5775 03:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- It's not the first time in history statues of previous rulers got destroyed when someone new took over. I bet there were many reasons, jealousy, economics, religion, who knows maybe she did something to deserve it like pull a Nero. I wasn't there. Popish Plot (talk) 04:21, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- The hypothesis that is most accepted these days (or at least three years ago, haven't checked) by Egyptologists and archaeologists with an interest in the area (I kind of still have some), which that TEDtalk dismissed, is that her nephew and successor, Thutmose III, was supremely pissed over her assuming rule as Pharaoh and basically pushing him into the shadows. A while after he came to power he inflicted epic pwnage upon her memory to seek vengeance. As an archaeologist, I'm inclined to agree with your conclusion about using Occam's razor. It just makes sense. The TED Talk dismissed that whole idea saying, "Would someone really hold onto anger like that for thirty years?" Uhh... yes? They claimed that Egyptian nobles couldn't stomach the idea that a woman had ever ruled and so this blemish on their patriarchy needed to be erased from existence. While no one would question that Ancient Egyptian was a patriarchal society (and an arrogant one at that), I think it's a huge stretch to try and pin this whole thing on Hatshepsut's sex rather than just a really angry nephew (who went on to be one of Ancient Egypt's greatest badasses, but still). The most difficult thing to do (there's some pyramid about it somewhere) to do when trying to reconstruct prehistoric society is attempting to reconstruct their values and ideas, and a huge problem is that your own biases and what's considered to be societal norms at the time will impact any interpretation. So, I think that trying to dismiss the idea that someone, who most likely had a massive ego (you're a living god, so not a stretch), would hold onto such a massive slight against him in favour of some complex unsubstantiated hypothesis about a battle of the sexes is silly, and dishonest if you're trying to persuade people it's the truth without any real evidence. Anyway, that's my thought on the matter. I need some amaretto. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 4 Nisan 5775 03:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- Here's a nice article on gender benders from Utne reader [1]. Not exactly what you want, but might be useful. "Gender swap" is the term usually used when a literary character is reimagined as a different gender see here [2] for fictional characters. See also "genderflip" at TV tropes: [3]. This anime seems to be a loosely gender swapped romance of the three kingdoms, with an all female cast [4].
- The most direct thing I can find that answers your question: this non-Japanese all-women production of Julius Caesar [5]. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:38, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- All fantastic finds. I do remember the furor over Starbuck and not caring about whatever the original was like as Kyra Thrace was a badass of the highest calibre. I may have to watch that anime though. I think for the Japanese it's a combination of a desire to make harem anime, comedy, and some bizarre desire to make samurai in bikinis marketable (could you imagine TR in a bikini?—he would clearly rock a speedo in any reality), at least when it comes to whatever audience in Japan it is that actually likes fan service. Does this happen outside of Japan? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 4 Nisan 5775 03:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- Does fan service happen outside of Japan? Absolutely, though I guess it doesn't always go by that name, see e.g. Transformers, and many other popcorn action blockbusters... or do you mean harem shows? I dunno, Three's_Company is sort of like that, also the popular webcomic Questionable Content [6] is sort of a deconstructed harem anime. As for the gender swapped historical figures, the Caesar play was the best I could find. You might have some luck googling things like /[name of western male historical figure] as a female/ That's how I got to Caesar, as /historical figure gender swap/ wasn't working well. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:31, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- All fantastic finds. I do remember the furor over Starbuck and not caring about whatever the original was like as Kyra Thrace was a badass of the highest calibre. I may have to watch that anime though. I think for the Japanese it's a combination of a desire to make harem anime, comedy, and some bizarre desire to make samurai in bikinis marketable (could you imagine TR in a bikini?—he would clearly rock a speedo in any reality), at least when it comes to whatever audience in Japan it is that actually likes fan service. Does this happen outside of Japan? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 4 Nisan 5775 03:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
instrument identification
edithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K-24CQ_Qhg#t=58m53s
I desire to know what instruments are used in the first few dozen seconds here. I’m guessing that it’s from an electronic piano in the ’80s, but I don’t know what it’s called (if anything). Does anybody know what’s used here? --66.190.99.112 (talk) 14:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
- That history of Charles de Gaulle seems to use period music, so I'd guess that's just a normal (not very impressive) organ. Definitely not a cathedral organ. StuRat (talk) 00:58, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- There seems to be some wobble in the playback speed, causing weird effects that might well make you think of an electronic instrument. —Tamfang (talk) 08:57, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds like a bad recording of normal orchestra music, low strings and brass. I don't hear anything remotely like an organ or electronic instrument. 50.0.205.75 (talk) 19:09, 23 March 2015 (UTC)