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Wikipedia:Peer review/List of awards and nominations received by Madhuri Dixit/archive1

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List of awards and nominations received by Madhuri Dixit edit

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I have developed it for a Featured List award, and expanded it keeping the FLC criteria in mind. Minor prose glitches I would like to eliminate in the Peer review. Open to any kind of suggestion.

Thanks, —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 05:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Appreciate your interest in developing this article. But I don't think these kind of lists on Indian celebrities are FL worthy, since there is no complete set of data available on the internet/books; they fail to meet the 3(a) criterion. You need to mention each and every major award that the celebrity has won. I'm not sure whether Madhuri herself would be having a complete set of awards that she has won till date. I'm not discouraging you; I've had a similar experience with the actor with most wins in India and almost gave up in the end. —Vensatry (Ping me) 05:27, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Duhh, that is why the {{dynamic list}} tag on top of the article. Any award and nomination page is a dynamic list and is subject to change. It is complete and notable to the point now with reliable sources. Non-notable awards are not added and neither they can be encyclopedic. Kamal Hassan's list failed because of bad reference sourcing and formatting, and general prose glitch as pointed out by Legolas2186, Bill William Compton and The Rambling Man. Oh and you got 3a completely wrong and to explain it, read the bolded parts carefully: "It comprehensively covers the defined scope, providing at least all of the major items and, where practical, a complete set of items; where appropriate, it has annotations that provide useful and appropriate information about the items." —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 05:43, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm very well aware of the 3(a) criteria, without which I would've never gotten five FLs. From your explanations, I can very well say that you miss a major point here; I'm not willing to explain though. You talk about notable awards and the page is flooded with many unnotable awards; to name a few, "Giants International Award", "Platinum Diva Award", "Smita Patil Memorial Award", "Master Deenanath Mangeshkar Vishesh Award", "Kalabhinetri Awards" are notable according to you. Also you've added retrospectives and polls which doesn't fit in this category. I'd suggest you to change the title of the page if you want all these here. Finally, it's not that I couldn't rectify those formatting and prose issues in the Kamal Haasan page and renominate it after a year. There was a problem with the 3(a) criteria. —Vensatry (Ping me) 14:37, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The awards that you pointed out, yes they are notable since they covered and noted in reliable third party sources. If you have any criticism for bettering the article, please say it, instead of trying to belittle the attempt at improving it. And yes, again, the Kamal Hassan page does not violate 3a, and you missed another point again. All these award lists are dynamic, they will never be complete and is always a work in progress. Since there aren't any lists pertaining to awards won by movie artist, I will turn to the music artist pages, like Chris Brown, Madonna (recent most example), Kanye West etc. most of them are in a similar format. The Madonna one being the recent most is a good example that these lists are always an evolving list. If you are suggesting to change the name of the page, I very well welcome the suggestion and request you to place your thoughts on this matter. After all, the page, the awards, the nominations, they all pass notability—and I myself have personally removed all those awards which are non-notable and could not be verified by third party reliable sources. So, yeah, thanks for your comments, but this page is for peer reviewing the article for further improvement, let's just stick to that. May be you are thinking something along the lines of List of accolades received by David Lynch → List of accolades received by Madhuri Dixit? —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 08:16, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm still waiting for those constructive comments User:Vensatry. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 11:39, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not that I can't give constructive comments. I've reviewed numerous successful FLCs and a fair amount of GAs. But for someone doesn't assume good faith, I may not be the right person. If this list goes to FLC, I'll be the first one to review and provide those constructive comments. So till then have no worries. —Vensatry (Ping me) 11:52, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • So essentially those constructive comments would be the ones for opposing the article I see? When those comments could have easily been resolved here in an open PR. You are saying that there are problems in the article and I have responded with the counter-points. Yet, you seem to again go around with the same argument of WP:FLC#a. I would expect bettter from someone who claims to have reviewed numerous GAs and FLs. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 11:55, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have to answer frivolous questions. —Vensatry (Ping me) 12:42, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I said I'm not willing to comment here. If you want constructive comments from me right now, go ahead with the FLC as soon as possible. My last comment on this peer review. —Vensatry (Ping me) 12:46, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Since you are not willing to comment here, just stay off. Let others conduct the review. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 05:32, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You are not a reviewer to cap my comments. As I already said, you don't have any right to ask me to stay off. If some wise people think my comments to be disruptive, I myself cap those. —Vensatry (Ping me) 14:44, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Gawd, the only reason it was done was to make the page clear so that the below reviewers comments could be seen. Don't get worked up on everything. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 05:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would agree with Vensatry. FLs should be complete. I assume you have added the {{dynamic list}} tag on top to mean that Dixit is still active and is still winning awards. And hence the list is incomplete. But actually the list is incomplete for past works also. As Vensatry points out, we can not be sure that all her awards of past works are covered here.
    There is also an issue on notability of all awards listed. I wouldn't call "Platinum Diva Award" as notable enough to mention here. Now if you say whether notable or not, all awards should be mentioned;.... completeness of the list is in question. For starters, i know its a huge task, what you can do is start creating individual articles of these awards. A stand-alone article of any award means the award is given regularly, is covered by reliable sources every time, other recepients are also notable, and such other things. If we can't have standalone articles of these awards, that tells us of how notable they are. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 06:53, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keeping those above mentioned issues aside, i have following comments:
  • "acting was not Dixit's primary goal because she wanted to be a Microbiologist" .... We know she was studying Microbiology, but to say that acting was not her primary goal is just on border line of original research. Rephrasing would do.
  • "Dixit starred opposite Aamir Khan in the 1990 romantic drama"..... It should be "1990's romantic drama".
  • "During the 90s, Dixit reached her pinnacle of commercial success" .... Does that mean she can't do better now?  
  • "fan of a singer in Saajan" ..... "fan of a poet".
  • "was listed by Forbes magazine as the top-five highest paid actors." .... When? I am sure thats quite dynamic.
  • The awards aren't arranged alphabetically. If they are per importance, some rearrangement is required. Star Foundation Network Award is surely not as important as Zee Cine Awards and nor is Kalabhinetri Award more important than Padma Shri. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 07:17, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • This one I could not find which are not arranged alphabetically. Can you point out? —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 05:41, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • My bad. Must have got confused while scrolling up & down. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 06:13, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your comments Dharm. I wold just like to point out few things. Per the FLC 3a criteria the list should comprehensively cover the defined scope, providing at least all of the major items and, where practical, a complete set of items. In this case I would like to say that yes, there were other awards from her old work also, but they were deemed non-notable as per my understanding, since I could not find any third party reliable sources. The reason I included Platinum Diva Award was because that was being covered by third party sources, which I could not ignore. So there in lies a dichotomy that simply creating stand-alone articles gives rise to credibility? Like List of awards and nominations received by Madonna, a recent most FL on this subject, there are many awards without pages in WP also. As for older works, I don't believe that all of them are needed to be added, since the criteria itself says that at least the major items should be covered. I even cross-checked with the Madonna ELs and found some awards in IMDB etc, which were not added, perhaps being non-notable. Thanks again for your time and I will take a look at your other comments. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 07:23, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know how this "comprehensiveness" of a list is measured. But thats for FLC. This is PR and hence i will leave this point now. I did not mean that everything notable in the universe has an article here and that should be the gauging basis. But having a stand-alone article is just a test of notability. There is no need of stand-alone article also. For example, Deenanath Mangeshkar and Smita Patil can have their awards on their biographic articles. But here many awards are on borderline of notability. I wouldn't call Platinum Diva Award as notable, although covered by reliable sources, if it was given only this one time. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 08:27, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well fine, I can see your point regarding Platinum Diva Award, I see where you are coming from. What other awards do you think might not pass notability in this case? Regarding {{dynamic list}} as concerned by Vensatry below, yes the list is still evolving seeing as Mads is alive, but regarding the old awards, how can any1 be ever sure? For eg, suppose Mads being a dancer she got awards in school, but will those be notable? Like most of the other award lists which are FL, there are other obscure awards as I pointed out, which again face the notability clause, like present awards Platinum Diva as you had concern. What do you do regsrding these? —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 05:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have doubts regarding Giants International Award, National Citizen Award, Raj Kapoor Special Contribution Award, Star Foundation Network Award, Stardust Awards, Vogue Beauty Awards, Indian Film Festival of Los Angeles and India's Top Movie Stars.
    You also need to separate out which are actual awards and which are felicitations. Like, is screening her two films at Indian Film Festival of Los Angeles an award or felicitation? After Rajesh Khanna's death many festivals have screened his films. When Jagjit Singh died, many shows where organized where his ghazals were sung. I won't call these as awards.
    You will have to sastify all reviewers that this is the most comprehensive list that covers all major awards and excludes awards like school awards. You also have to prove that these enlisted ones are actually notable. Hence the initial suggestion of starting separate pages to test their notability. If the articles don't get deleted, you have a blue link and then no one would question their notability. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 06:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cool, cool. I definitely see your point regarding the felicitation thing. I did have a question regarding those during writing the article, but sought to seek it in PR. Glad you answered my unasked question. Haha. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 06:44, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

On a funnier note; this awards should also go in.  §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 14:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Glad you could be of such tremendous help Vensatry, really commendable. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 05:21, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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