Wikipedia:Peer review/List of Malmö FF seasons/archive1

List of Malmö FF seasons edit

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this list for peer review because I think it needs further work before FLC. The two major areas for improvement are of course the lead and the "1920-Present" section. I would also appreciate any constructive advice regarding the list layout and format.

Thanks, Reckless182 (talk) 16:45, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a little bit of a shuffle through (as you probably saw), just a minor copy-edit and alt-text on the images, also a tiny bit of work on the tables. The lead can wait; the tables need work now.

Firstly, the sorting is rather strange. The first step to resolving this is ensuring that there is an entry in every single space on this table. Even if nothing is applicable at all, just put an en-dash.
Where Malmo played in two leagues in one year (Allsvenskan and Mästerskapsserien, for example), separate the entires with a ---- within the box to create two entries within a single box which will still sort as "Allsvenskan". At the moment you have two entries arguing with each other when the table attempts to sort and it buggers up. If this isn't clear, I will put an example:

 |-
 |[[1991 in Swedish football|1991]]
 |[[1991 Allsvenskan|Allsvenskan]]
 ----
 [[1991 Mästerskapsserien|Mästerskapsserien]]
 |18 <!-- Allsvenskan matches -->
 ---- 
 10 <!-- Mästerskapsserien matches -->
 |7 <!-- Allsvenskan wins -->
 ----
 3 <!-- Mästerskapsserien wins -->
 [and so on]

If I were you I would start by working through the table and fixing these.
Under 1933–34, replace "DSQ" with an endash. It will help with sorting. If you have a word with letters in there with "1st", "2nd", "3rd" and so on, it makes the table sort these as words rather than numbers ... which isn't really useful for us (in this case).
Move the up and down arrows to the "Pos" column, and where they are present force the table's sorting with {{sort|1|1st {{up-arrow|alt=promoted}}}}. This makes the table easier to follow.
It may be worth putting an actual en-dash in the "key to cup record" as well as the description, as not everybody will know what it is.
It may be helpful to have a section of the key where it has a quick, simple and easy key to refer to giving the English and Swedish names of all of the different competitions; for example:

*Allsvenskan – "The All-Swedish"; Sweden's top football league, held since 1924
*Svenska Mästerskapet – "Swedish Masters Cup"; a cup held between 1896 and 1925 to decide the Swedish football champions
[and so on]

This will, I think, help enormously in making the article engaging and making people interested.

That's all for now. After we've sorted the tables out we'll do some work on the lead. I look forward to following this list's progress. —Cliftonian (talk) 23:54, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I think you're going to hate me for this: for FLC the top scorers' names are going to have to be formatted with the {{sortname}} template, so they sort by the players' surnames. Yes, thought so, you hate me now. —Cliftonian (talk) 12:26, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I always appreciate constructive criticism! I'll get to it later. I believe I have fixed the other sorting issues and I have also clarified and added to the key section. Hopefully it works and looks a lot better now. --Reckless182 (talk) 12:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It looks much better now but there's still a way to go. Keep on working on it and I'll check back later. You've done a very good job so far. —Cliftonian (talk) 12:44, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

{{sortname}} has now been applied to all top scorers and I've tested the sorting function which now seems to be working in a good fashion, please correct me if I'm wrong. --Reckless182 (talk) 14:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone trough the sorting and I've detected issues with the league parameters (W, D, L, GF, GA and Points). There are also some issues regarding the sorting of the other competitions, Svenska Cupen, Supercupen and the European competitions. How do I solve this? --Reckless182 (talk) 15:35, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You've got the same issue as before: numbers are sorting as letters. To resolve this, for every number below 10, use a sort template, like this: {{sort|09|9}}. On the other competitions, put an en-dash into every cell. Blank spaces bugger up the sorting. You may also want to force en-dashes to the bottom, like this: {{sort|Zz|–}}. One more thing: in the prose you refer to "Distriksmästerskapen", but in the table there is "Distriksmästerskapet". Is this correct? I don't speak Swedish at all, so don't know. ~~Also, you may want to combine the refs on the "2011" row into one.~~ —Cliftonian (talk) 16:15, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've done this last one, and also added a picture to liven the list up a bit. I hope you don't mind. —Cliftonian (talk) 16:36, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well done on what you've done on the cup sorting, that is perfect. Keep up the good work. —Cliftonian (talk) 16:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I believe that all sorting is fixed as of now. I also changed Distriktmästerskapen to Distriksmästerskapet, both can be used but we better be consistent. The picture is a nice addition to the list, I have no objections whatsoever! --Reckless182 (talk) 03:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, that table looks great now. Now let's turn to the lead. In the list of seasons I did for Luton, I just put a potted history of the club here, but as you've got a separate history section here we have to do something different. If I were you I would put a very brief history of the club in the first paragraph, then the second paragraph as you have it, then put some stuff about top scorers, lowest league position (and when), unbeaten seasons, seasons with highest percentage of wins, etc. Just see what you can come up with and I'll have a look over it when you're done. Great job on the table! —Cliftonian (talk) 12:07, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think of this for the brief history of the club?

"Malmö Fotbollförening were founded on 24 February 1910 by 19 members of a predecessor club named BK Idrott who for a short period of time merged with local town rival IFK Malmö. After participating in regional competitions and national cup play in Svenska Mästerskapet for the 1910's the club joined the newly created league system in 1920. With the exception of Malmö FF's one season apperance in the unofficial first tier of Swedish, Svenska Serien, the club played in the second tier of Swedish football for the entire 1920's. In 1931 they first participated in Allsvenskan, the first tier of Swedish football created in 1924. Following a brief spell in the second tier after being relegated by the Swedish Football Association having been found guilty breaching amateur relegations Malmö FF became a permanent feature in Allsvenskan and had several periods of success, particularly in the early 1950's, 1970's and the 1980's. The club were regulated for the first time since 1934 in 1999 but spent only season in the second tier before being promoted once again. Malmö FF had their first major success since the 1980's in 2004 and 2010 when they won the league."

and this for the record paragraph:

"As of 2012, Malmö FF have played 102 seasons of which 76 have been spent in Allsvenskan, 13 seasons in various divisions of the second tier of Swedish football and 11 seasons outside the league system. They have won Allsvenskan 19 times and been relegated two times, first in 1934 and later in 1999. Their worst league finish up to date came in the 1926–27 season when they finished in 6th position in the second tier. Malmö FF's best performance in terms of the highest percentage of wins and the fact that they remained unbeaten through the entire season was in 1950 when they won 20 out of 22 league games, drawing in 2 games and losing none. The season also holds the club record of most league goals scored in a season with 82. The 1949–50 season is a part of the still standing record in Swedish football of 49 league matches without defeat. Looking at goal scorers Hans Håkansson holds the record of scoring most league goals for Malmö FF during a single season, scoring 30 goals in 18 matches for the 1935–36 season when the club played in the second tier of the league system, Bo Larsson holds the record of scoring the most Allsvenskan goals during a single season, scoring 28 goals in 22 matches during the 1965 season. Overall Malmö FF holds the record for most consecutive Allsvenskan league titles with five titles between 1985 and 1989 and the most consecutive Allsvenskan seasons played with 63 seasons between 1936 and 1999."

I'm thinking that these might be better of for the List of Malmö FF records and statistics but we could still use them here. What do you reckon? --Reckless182 (talk) 19:43, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think for records directly relevant to seasons are more appropriate here. Here is my version of what you have written:

Malmö Fotbollförening, commonly called Malmö FF, are a Swedish professional football club based in Malmö, who currently play in the highest tier of Swedish football, Allsvenskan. Malmö FF were founded on 24 February 1910 by 19 members of a predecessor club named BK Idrott, who for a short time had been merged with cross-town rivals IFK Malmö. After participating in regional competitions and national cup play in Svenska Mästerskapet during the 1910s, Malmö FF joined Sweden's newly-created national league system in 1920, and played in the second tier of Swedish football for the next decade – with the exception of one season in Svenska Serien, then unofficially the top football league in Sweden. Allsvenskan was established as Sweden's official first tier in 1924, and Malmö FF first took part in 1931. The Swedish Football Association prohibited professionalism at this time, and Malmö FF were demoted in 1934 for having paid players. They were promoted back in 1936, and have since had several periods of consistent success, most notably in the early 1950s, the 1970s and the 1980s. The pinnacle of the club's history came in 1979, when, as finalists in both the European Cup and Intercontinental Cup, Malmö FF were ranked as one of the strongest clubs in the world. After winning a record five consecutive Allsvenskan titles between 1985 and 1989, the club won nothing during the 1990s and were relegated for the first time in 1999, though they returned to the top flight a year later. They have since remained in Allsvenskan, and won league titles in 2004 and 2010.

As of 2012, Malmö FF have played 102 seasons, 89 of which have been spent within the Swedish league system. The club have contested Allsvenskan 76 times, and have won the competition on 19 occasions. Malmö FF have been demoted once (in 1934) and relegated once (in 1999); their 63 successive Allsvenskan seasons between 1936 and 1999 is a league record. Their worst league finish to date is sixth in the second tier, their placing at the end of the 1926–27 season. The 1950 season was Malmö FF's best in terms of league performance: the team were unbeaten all year, won 20 out of 22 league games, and collectively scored 82 league goals, a club record which still stands. Hans Håkansson holds the record for most league goals for Malmö FF during a single season, having scoring 30 goals in 18 second-tier matches during the 1935–36 season. Excluding second-tier seasons, however, the record belongs to Bo Larsson, whose tally of 28 goals in 22 games during 1965 remains unmatched today.

I think maybe this is good? —Cliftonian (talk) 20:41, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds perfect. Should we place both these in the history section or do you think that one might be a good paragraph to have in the lead? I'm thinking that maybe the lead might look better with an additional paragraph. --Reckless182 (talk) 21:15, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would put these two paragraphs as the lead, and leave the existing "history" section as it is. But it's up to you. —Cliftonian (talk) 21:27, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done! I'll add more sources to the lead later. Do you have any other feedback on the prose? --Reckless182 (talk) 21:47, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have a look at the footnotes either this evening or tomorrow; the lead and the history look very good now. The article is starting to look in excellent shape overall. Keep it up! —Cliftonian (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One more thing: if you know when the Swedish FA started allowing professionalism in Allsvenskan, that would be very good to put in. —Cliftonian (talk) 21:52, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have now added references for the lead section and some additional ones for the footnotes. Have a look and see if you think that anything can be improved. --Reckless182 (talk) 23:39, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I did a minor copy-edit of the notes and it all looks good now. I'm still waiting on when the Swedish FA started allowing professionalism in Allsvenskan? That would be really good to have. —Cliftonian (talk) 20:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I did some research but I've failed to find a reliable source on the subject, the Swedish FA have a fairly good statistical record and a year by year history section but there are no mentions of when professionalism became acceptable or when the entire league became a professional league. I do know that Malmö FF turned fully professional in the late 1970's, I also have a reliable source on that. --Reckless182 (talk) 21:23, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here we are, 1967 is when the amateur rules were dismantled. Righty-ho, I'll go put this in now. —Cliftonian (talk) 21:33, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wow that was quick. Great job! Reckless182 (talk) 21:36, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I try. :) Right, this looks fantastic now. I think it's ready for FLC, and I can't see it having problems. Well done and I'll keep on helping anywhere I can. —Cliftonian (talk) 21:40, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for all your help and feedback! I'll close this now and nominate the list for FLC. --Reckless182 (talk) 21:47, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]