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Joseph (art model) edit

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Hi all! I've come across this subject through the new Getty online exhibition on Joseph (more information on that here). Though I had previously read about the importance of Black figures in Gericault's Raft of the Medusa, it was fascinating to learn more about Joseph and explore what is still very much an under-researched topic. The article was a stub when I had first started working on it and have since been working to gradually improve it. Research is scant; a major recent publication on Black bodies in French modern art by Denise Murrell seems to focus more on Laure (Manet) than Joseph. I was able to gather a good amount of material, but would love additional suggestions and to hear what others think, both in terms of sources and structure. My goal is to bring this to GA.

Thank you dearly, Ppt91 ^talk 20:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is a peer review assisted by GPT-4. I fed it this article and had a conversation with it. Here are some excerpts (some its answers are the same suggestion/idea rephrased, but I put it all in there and you can figure out the good bits):

"Here are a few points that could be improved or clarified in the article:

In the first paragraph, it would be better to specify the years of Joseph's activity, rather than simply stating he was active during the 19th century.

In the section "Haiti and France (1793–1818)", consider rephrasing the sentence "Joseph was one of the many immigrants who had left Haiti in the aftermath of the 1791–1804 Haitian Revolution and the subsequent abolition of slavery in the French colonies (which lasted from 1794 until 1804 when it was legalized again by Napoleon)" to avoid confusion regarding the timeline of the Haitian Revolution, the abolition of slavery, and its re-legalization.

In the section "Joseph and abolitionism", it might be helpful to provide more context regarding the historical background of French colonialism and the political situation in France at the time of Géricault's painting.

In the section "Paris Academy (1830s)", it would be useful to provide more information on the role of art models at l'École des Beaux-Arts, to help readers understand the significance of Joseph's position.

In the section "Legacy", it might be interesting to discuss Joseph's impact on the art world and the perception of Black models in the art community, as well as any lasting influence his work might have had on future artists or models.

Also, consider reviewing the article for minor inconsistencies, such as the use of "art model" and "life model" interchangeably, to ensure consistent terminology throughout the text."

ME: "Those are great suggestions! Can you think of any more?"

"Certainly, here are a few more suggestions:

In the second paragraph, it might be helpful to include a brief explanation of the Haitian Revolution for readers who may not be familiar with it. For example, "Having left Haiti in the aftermath of the Haitian Revolution (1791-1804), a successful slave rebellion that led to the establishment of an independent Haiti, Joseph arrived in Marseille around 1804 and moved to Paris in 1808."

The article should provide more information about Joseph's experience as an acrobat and actor before his work as an art model. This background is crucial for understanding his transition into the world of fine arts and how he might have come into contact with notable artists of the time.

The article mentions that Joseph was one of only three male models employed at l'École des Beaux-Arts in 1832. It would be interesting to provide some context about the other two models and how they might have differed from or been similar to Joseph in terms of background or experiences.

In the section "Joseph and abolitionism," it would be helpful to include more specific examples of how Géricault's political views influenced his art, particularly The Raft of the Medusa. Were there any instances where he actively advocated for abolition or used his art to make a statement?

The article could provide more insight into the contemporary artistic community's perception of Joseph. Were there any notable artists or art critics who specifically commented on his work as a model, either positively or negatively?

In the section "Legacy," it would be useful to discuss any contemporary artists who may have been influenced by Joseph's work or who have incorporated elements of his story into their own art. This could help illustrate the lasting impact of his contributions"

Me: "Do you see any example of specific sentences that could be improved or clarified?"

"Of course! Here are a few examples of sentences that could be improved or clarified:

Original: "He later moved to Paris in 1808." Suggestion: "Joseph relocated to Paris in 1808, seeking opportunities in the thriving artistic community."

Original: "Joseph's career took a new direction when he started modeling for students at the school." Suggestion: "Joseph's career experienced a significant shift when he began working as a model for students at l'École des Beaux-Arts, providing him with greater visibility among prominent artists."

Original: "Géricault, a friend of the abolitionist cause, used Joseph as a model for several of his works." Suggestion: "Géricault, an ardent supporter of the abolitionist movement, frequently featured Joseph as a model in several of his artworks, reflecting his commitment to the cause."

Original: "The Raft of the Medusa is considered an icon of French Romanticism and a precursor to the Romantic movement in the arts." Suggestion: "The Raft of the Medusa, which is widely regarded as an emblem of French Romanticism, is often seen as a precursor to the broader Romantic movement in the arts."

Original: "In the years that followed, Joseph worked as an art model for several other prominent artists." Suggestion: "Following his collaborations with Géricault, Joseph continued to work as an art model for numerous other distinguished artists of the time."

By rephrasing these sentences, the article can provide more context, detail, and precision in presenting Joseph's story and achievements."

Me: "Do you think anything could be added to the article for complete encyclopaedic coverage of this topic?"

"To ensure complete encyclopedic coverage of Joseph's story, the article could benefit from the addition of the following information:

Early life: Elaborate on Joseph's early life, including details about his upbringing, family background, and any experiences that may have influenced his artistic journey.

Artistic collaborations: Mention more of the prominent artists Joseph worked with, along with examples of specific artworks where he was featured as a model.

Influence on art history: Discuss the impact Joseph had on art history and the representation of Black individuals in European art during the 19th century. Explore how his presence in prominent artworks may have contributed to shifting perceptions.

Personal life: Include information about Joseph's personal life, such as his relationships, friendships, and any events that significantly influenced his career and life.

Later years and legacy: Discuss Joseph's later years, how his career evolved, and any lasting contributions he made to the art world. Additionally, explore how his story has been remembered or reinterpreted in contemporary times.

Contextualize his story within the broader historical period, including the ongoing discussions about race, colonialism, and abolition in Europe during the 19th century.

Include any available primary sources or testimonials from artists he worked with, offering more insight into his life and the impact he had on the art world.

By incorporating this information, the article can provide a comprehensive overview of Joseph's life, career, and contributions to the art world, while also placing his story within the broader historical and cultural context."

I have no personal opinion about validity or worth of these suggestions; let me know if they were useful for improving the article. Esculenta (talk) 23:34, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Standard note edit

I have added this PR to the Template:FAC peer review sidebar to get quicker and more responses. When this PR is closed, please remove it from the list. Also, consider adding the sidebar to your userpage to help others discover pre-FAC PRs, and please review other articles in that template. Also, since you are working towards your first successful FAC, I suggest getting a featured article mentor to give comments on this, and to review articles at FAC to gain a better understanding of the FA criteria. Z1720 (talk) 00:54, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720 Thanks for your reply and my apologies for a delayed reply. I was actually hoping to nominate another article of mine, Henryk Stazewski, for FA with the intention of bringing the one here up to GA (which I was thankfully able to do last month). I've reached out to a mentor about Henryk Stazewski for potential FA, though they currently have a backlog (their initial and quick overview was positive). Might I consider both for FA? I believe Stazewski would be a stronger candidate due to the extent of scholarship. I also want to be mindful of other editors' time and also realistic in regard to my own schedule. Thanks again. I appreciate your help. Ppt91 ^talk 18:44, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest nominating the article that is stronger first, so you can get feedback and apply the comment to the second article. I also suggest that you run the FAC when you have a chance to respond on a somewhat regular basis: usually responses to comments are expected after a couple of days, maximum. Z1720 (talk) 20:34, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]