Wikipedia:Peer review/Frederick Russell Burnham/archive1

Frederick Russell Burnham edit

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review with WikiProject Military History because I will be co-nominating with PumpkinSky talk this article for FA. This former FA is currently a GA and while it received substantial support during the most recent FAC, it was not quite enough to reach FA. The article is free of major cleanup banners, it has not been through PR recently, and all of the actionable issues that came out the most recent FAC have been addressed. I hope you enjoy reading about Burnham and I welcome your constructive input.

Thanks, Ctatkinson (talk) 01:24, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Nikkimaria

I'm confused by the image licensing here - several images are tagged as pre-1923, but why are some of those also PD-user? Also, if the latter tag is kept, you'll probably want to correct the username
File:Esperanza_stone_burnham1910.jpg: possible to give more specific source information? Also, I think caption would read better if we switched the period for a comma
No citations to DeGroot
Infobox says he was honorary president of BSA; article says he was honorary Scout and honorary president of Arizona Boy Scouts. Which is correct?
"learning scouting from some of the last of the old cowboys and frontiersmen of the American Southwest" - not sure this is supported by the article
"He later worked as a civilian tracker for the United States Army in the Apache Wars" - the way it reads in the article, this came before the material it follows in the lead
"his rank of major was formally given to him by King Edward VII" - wasn't he promoted before Victoria's death?
"Burnham returned to America in 1905" - article isn't clear on date, particularly given his time in Mexico. Unless you meant America as in North America rather than US?
"he and his business partner John Hays Hammond formed the Burnham Exploration Company and became wealthy from oil discovered in California" - article doesn't associate Hammond senior with either the company or the oil wealth
Per WP:SEEALSO, that section should contain only relevant internal links, not external
Can you explain why you're including title coordinates? The infobox template documentation specifies inline
Dab links to Harry White and Charles Bentinck; not sure which, if any, of those listed are the correct individuals
The first sentence of Early life isn't supported by FN5, so you'll probably want a different citation after it; FN5 also doesn't specify where Edwin was ordained and refers to him as Congregational, which I understand to be distinct from Presbyterian
FN9 says that Burnham's father was in Mankato at the time of the attack, not New Ulm
FN11 also discusses Burnham's first experience being 'under fire", which he states "influenced [his] entire career"; that might be worth including
FN18: my copy gives a different version of this quote: "it is imperative that a scout should know the history, tradition, religion, social customs, and superstitions of whatever country or people he is called on to work in or among" - can you double-check?
FN68: part of this quote appears to be missing. Confirmed from the second source, the quote as presented omits the phrase "which you have from time to time been engaged"
FN69 doesn't seem to mention a burst blood-vessel
Neither FN10 nor 11 specify where he met Blanche
The bit about the orange grove is in FN10, but I don't see it in FN23 - am I missing something?
I don't see any mention of high school in FN10
There is no PD attribution tag for FN10, and yet "regretted this as much as Burnham and paid him a great tribute in his book" is taken verbatim from that source. Do further attributions tags need to be added for sources other than Real Soldiers of Fortune?
"During the 1880s, sections of the American press popularized the notion that the West had been won and there was nothing left to conquer in the United States. The time when great scouts like Kit Carson, Daniel Boone, and Davy Crockett could explore and master the wild and uncharted Western territories was coming to a close. Contemporary scouts like Buffalo Bill, Wild Bill Hickok, and Texas Jack Omohundro, were leaving the old West to became entertainers" - source?
"shower of bullets and spears" should be quoted, as it's directly from the source
FN32 does not identify to whom the quote was addressed, although FN34 does
"It was here that Burnham uncovered many artifacts in the huge granite ruins of the ancient civilization of Great Zimbabwe" - from my reading of the source, the ruins were discovered during an expedition that included not only "here" (his tract) but also areas of "Barotzeland and other regions to the north of Mashonaland"
I'm not sure FN48 supports any of the material it's used to cite: it says basically only that they killed Mlimo in a cave, and also says that they tried to capture him first (the article seems to imply otherwise)
"American news reports of the time described him as having a cruel, crafty look" - source?
"Field Marshal Frederick Roberts, one of the British Army's most successful commanders of the 19th century, was appointed to take overall command of British forces, relieving General Redvers Buller, following a number of Boer successes in the early weeks of the war" - given source appears to support only that Roberts was appointed
"Soon after arriving in South Africa on the RMS Dunottar Castle" - source?
" Cape Town is at the opposite end of the globe from the Klondike" is quite similar in phrasing to "Although Cape Town is at the opposite end of the globe from the Klondike"
"In an unusual step for a foreigner, Burnham received a command post from Roberts and the British Army rank of captain" - source?
"Burnham spent much time behind the Boer lines gathering information and blowing up railway bridges and tracks" is quite similar in phrasing to "He spent much time behind the Boer lines...gathering information he also hlew up railway bridges and tracks"
"The six-shooter Burnham purchased as a teenager in Prescott, Arizona, which he kept all his life and later used in Rhodesia, East Africa and Mexico" - source?
The Battle of Paardeberg article gives its dates as 18-27 February, while this article uses 17-26 - which is correct?
In that same sentence you link to Driefontein, which states that it is a separate location from where the Battle of Driefontein took place - the latter would seem to me a better link in any case, and British Cape Colony over Cape Colony
I'm not sure that the description of the Lovat Scouts merits a full paragraph
FN78 says the Lovat Scouts were formed in 1900, not 1899
"the backgrounds of these two scouts was as strange a contrast as it is possible to imagine" - would suggest replacing this statement with a quote to that effect from the source
"It was also here that Baden-Powell began to wear his signature Stetson campaign hat and neckerchief, like those worn by Burnham, for the first time" - not sure the source supports connecting this to Burnham; it seems to imply more the influence of the cowboy shows
"During their joint scouting missions, Baden-Powell and Burnham discussed the concept of a broad training program" - I'm not sure this is supported by the source
"a guide to outdoor fun"? The source connects this book to skills and training, but a later one to a less militaristic approach. However, the phrase "used by boys' groups as a guide to outdoor fun" does appear verbatim in FN92
"At the urging of several youth leaders, Baden-Powell decided to adapt his scouting handbook specifically to training boys" is quite similar in phrasing to "At the urging of several youth leaders, he decided to adapt the manual for the training of boys"
"There is an especial significance..." is long enough to need blockquoting
FN105 mentions that details of Burnham's involvement in the Shangani Patrol were "held in some suspicion in later years", and our article on the event elaborates - this article does not appear to discuss this? Why not?
This article states that he declined the Victoria Cross - is there any merit to that claim?
"Frederick Russell Burnham II, was a leader in the BSA" - source?
FN115 doesn't appear to mention the Wa Syndicate at all
"one of the garden spots of the world" is quite similar in phrasing to "be the garden spot of the world"
"Burnham together with Charles Frederick Holder made important archaeological discoveries..." - from what I can tell, both sources suggest that Burnham made the discoveries and that Holder came back with him later
"Roosevelt had been an outspoken critic of Wilson's neutrality policies, so even though Roosevelt had made several attempts to come to an agreement with Wilson, the President was unwilling to accept any compromise" - not sure this is supported by the given source
"These relentless attacks helped the Republicans win control of Congress in 1918" - you might want to clarify this a bit. By "relentless attacks", do you mean just the publication of the book, or something else? Also, someone unfamiliar with American politics would not realize the significance of Republicans controlling Congress with Wilson as president, or why attacks by Roosevelt on Wilson would have that effect
"Roosevelt might have been a serious candidate for president in 1920, but lingering malaria kept him out of the race" - not sure this is quite accurate, as the source indicates that during his last hospitalization he was planning to enter the race in June 1919, and does not connect that hospitalization to malaria
FN134 says the spy ring was jailed in 1941 not 1942
"Duquesne was twice arrested by the FBI" - source?
"the largest spy ring conviction in U.S. history" does not appear to be supported by the given source
FN147 mentions a different Burnham serving in 1934; how do we know that this Burnham's term ended then?
"president of the Southwest Museum of Los Angeles from 1938 until 1940, and he served as both the Honorary President of the Arizona Boy Scouts and as a regional executive for the BSA throughout the 1940s until his death in 1947.[148]" - the next page of the source states that Burnham was president of the museum, but not when, and does not mention Scouts at all; source?
Most of the paragraph about the Bighorn sheep is quite close in phrasing to FN149
FN93: "travel in wild country without either a compass or map" is quite close in phrasing to "tavelling without either compass or maps in wild country"
"Burnham's eyes possessed a far-away look such as those acquired by people whose occupation has caused them to watch continually at sea or on great plains" is quite similar in phrasing to "grey-blue eyes that have in them a far-away look such as those acquire whose occupation has caused them to watch continually at sea or on great plains"
"steady, grey-blue eyes" is a direct quote from the source
"fearing these habits would injure the acuteness of his sense of smell" is quite similar in phrasing to "fearing, as he told me, lest it should injure the acuteness of his sense of smell". Several other passages are also quite closely paraphrased or near-verbatim from this source (FN160)
The van Wyk book says he died of a stroke; why have you chosen to go with the Lott source? What do other sources say?
"He and his father became minority owners" - source?
"She was buried three days later in the town's Pioneer Cemetery, plot No. 144" - source?
FN166 says that Rod spoke "Kaffir", a group which includes far more languages than just Sindebele - how do we know which he spoke?
"Burnham's first son, Roderick (August 22, 1886 – July 2, 1976), was born in Pasadena, California" - source?
"He attended the Michigan School of Mines (now Michigan Technological University) in 1910" - source?
"helping to develop the first wells in Mexico" - source?
"On his arrival in England, Burnham was commanded to dine with Queen Victoria" is quite similar in phrasing to "On arrival in English he was commanded to dine with Queen Victoria"
"to spend the night at Osborne House" - source?
"Roderick awoke screaming and rushed to tell his grandmother about his nightmare. The next morning, a cable arrived" is quite similar in phrasing to "Roderick awakened screaming and ran into his grandmother's room to tell her of the nightmare. The next morning, a cable from his father"
"Hemingway was already behind schedule with other commitments, however, and no work had been done on the movie when he committed suicide" - this doesn't appear to be supported by the cited source
"Another epic film, On My Honor, was conceived and begun by Cecil B. DeMille" is quite similar in phrasing to "On My Honor is an epic film conceived and begun by Cecil B. DeMille"
"It was to document the founding of the Scouting movement" - I don't think either source supports this, and in fact FN201 directly contradicts it; the sources also say it's about Baden-Powell and neither mention Burnham
Source for the details of the coin? The given source provides only number, year, issuer, and event commemorated
Why do Birchard and Davis have the same ISBN?
"the young Burnham also learned much...Burnham learned much" seems repetitive
"fading from the frontier" seems rather colloquial in tone; check for other instances
"In spite of a shower of bullets and spears, the three made it to Forbes, but the battle raging there was just as intense" seems rather non-neutral in tone
Consider evaluating this article with WP:W2W in mind, as there are multiple instances of phrasing that I feel conflict with that guideline
Also be careful to adhere carefully to WP:NPOV; phrasing like "as strange a contrast as it is possible to imagine", for example, would seem to be too non-neutral
Avoid using a narrative tone: "together they dreamed of some day becoming great scouts", for example, seems more appropriate to a story than to an encyclopedia article
Is there a particular reason you've chosen not to cite either ODNB or ANB? They both include details not covered by this article
The ODNB describes an inquiry into the veracity of the account of Mlimo's death and suggests that Burnham was let go from the British South Africa Company as a result - you would probably need to at least mention this version of events
On that note, be careful to avoid presenting the subject in a positive light by minimizing or not including contrasting viewpoints or disputes - in order to be comprehensive and balanced, we ought to present all views from reliable sources (with due weight, of course)
ANB notes that Burnham was essentially broke as of 1914 and returned to the US
"In an astute display of political trickery" - suggest using a direct quote from the source
"even though Roosevelt had made several attempts to come to an agreement with Wilson, the President was unwilling to accept any compromise" seems, particularly without clear sourcing, to be a rather one-sided view of events
Much of the first two paragraphs of Personal life seem a bit subjective
"world traveling adventurer" -> "world-traveling adventurer", if that phrasing is kept - you might consider rephrasing anyways
Be consistent in whether you use "bighorn" or "big horn" for the sheep
"she returned to find their house burned down, but the baby Frederick was safe, fast asleep in the basket with the corn husks" could be more concisely expressed as "she returned to find their house burned down but baby Frederick safe and asleep in the basket"
"The young Burnham attended schools in Iowa and there he met Blanche Blick" - should be either repunctuated or rephrased
"He had lost all of his family in the Indian wars" - given the number of conflicts that can be so described, is it possible to specify?
I believe American grammar generally requires a comma before "and" when it connects independent clauses; in any event, there are many instances where this type of phrasing seems a bit awkward
Per WP:ALT, alt text shouldn't repeat captions
"Judge Aaron Hackney, editor of the local Arizona Silver Belt newspaper and friends with Burnham" - should be "friend of Burnham's"
Newspaper name should be italicized in text
Tombstone or Tombsone?
"found their way through the Matopos Hills to a sacred cave not many miles from the Mangwe district, to a sanctuary" - this phrasing is a bit unclear
"100 huts filled with many warriors" - "many" is redundant
" Once inside the cave, they waited until Mlimo entered...Burnham and Armstrong waited until Mlimo entered the cave" - repetitive. Check for other instances of repetition or redundancy
"Burnham decided it was time to leave Africa and move on to other adventures. The family returned to California. Soon after, Fred traveled" - why the shift in naming?
"it was directly caused" - I think you might mean "more immediately caused", given what precedes this?
"who he should appoint" -> "whom he should appoint"
"when received the following telegram" - grammar
"In an unusual step for a foreigner, Burnham received" - confusing: as Burnham didn't take the step, "for" is incorrect, and probably "step" would be better replaced
Read through the article and consider where the phrasing might be more concise
"to obtain information on the enemy, which he did, and then he escaped" -> "to obtain information on the enemy; having done so, he escaped"
"plodded steadily on" - colloquial
"out of the Pretoria"?
"Burnham reasoned that a dam could provide year-round water to rich alluvial soil in the valley; turning the region into one of the garden spots of the world and generate much needed electricity" - punctuation is incorrect here, check for other instances
You might find it helpful to seek out a copy-editor, perhaps at WP:GOCE
"Boy Scouts" should be consistently capitalized in that manner
Be consistent in what variety of spelling is used - it's mostly American, but I see some British, for example "centre of Bulawayo"
"300 acre (120 ha) tract of land" -> "300-acre (120-ha) tract of land". You might find it helpful to review the article with WP:HYPHEN at hand
Kit Carson is linked twice in Early life
Why are you repeating a cited source as an external link?
"35 min. silent b&w video" -> "35-minute silent black-and-white video"
Can you explain your rationale for including http://www.howardburnham.com/ as an external link?d
Is Amebelodon burnhami worth a redlink or redirect?
" feature length Shangani Patrol (film) (1970)" - should pipe that link
The MTU history gives previous names as "Michigan Mining School" and "Michigan College of Mines", but not "Michigan School of Mines" - can you verify?
The bighorn sheep species is usually not capitalized; "Giant eland" usually has eland in lowercase
WCU is now called IUCN
Suggest wikilinking commander-in-chief directly to the US section
Be consistent in whether you use "field craft" or "fieldcraft"; check for similar inconsistencies
Don't link the same terms in section hatnote and first sentence, as for example in the Second Boer War section
"Spanish-American" and "Pretoria-Delagoa Bay" should both be converted to endashes; check for similar problems with WP:DASH
"Wild West Show" or "Wild West show"? Check for further inconsistencies in capitalization
Closing punctuation should usually be outside of quotation marks - see MOS:LQ for guidelines
"Burnham was born on May 11, 1861 on a Sioux Indian reservation" - should include comma after 1861. See WP:COMMA for further usage guidelines
" Following his investiture, the British press hailed him as: "The King of Army Scouts"." - don't need colon here
"his book: The Wizard" - no colon here either. Check for further examples of colon misuse
Don't include spaces before colons, even in titles
Spell out unit names in prose
"Burnham Exploration Company paid out $10.2 million in dividends" - how much approximately would this be in modern currency?
Suggest putting the Bibliography image on the left
Is there somewhere to wikilink mescal to? If not, at least link aloe
Should identify briefly who the Gordons were, as they aren't mentioned in the Pleasant Valley War article
Should wikilink Sonora on first appearance
"but he soon went back to herding cattle and prospecting...but soon he was back prospecting and scouting" - repetitive
Suggest wikilinking burro and malaria
"6,100 km2" - missing superscript
Suggest wikilinking Silver Buffalo Award, Santa Barbara, and Three Rivers in article body
Is there an article that explains Wilson's neutrality policies that could be linked?
The Foes Of Our Own Household is worth a redlink
"endure the most appalling fatigues" should be phrased in a more encyclopedic manner
"The Fire that shall Never Die" - volume/issue formatting doesn't match other periodicals
FN5, 27, 29, 49: page formatting; stopped there, check for others
FN163, 200: spacing; check for others
Be consistent in whether you abbreviate page ranges or not: use either the model of "pp. 493–495." or of "pp. 338–48.", but not mixed
FN35 needs endash
FN50 harvlink isn't working
Be consistent in whether author initials are spaced or unspaced, and in whether they include periods
Baden-Powell 1908: the GBooks link and ISBN resolve to two different modern versions of this book; which of these was consulted, and does it match the pagination of the original version?
References list should be in alphabetical order
Barnes: WorldCat and GBooks for that ISBN both say published 1992; is another edition being referred to?
Barrett: my search suggests that the second author is Vallance not Valiance; also check formatting, add issue and page numbers
Bryant is missing volume number and should probably also include complete pagination for consistency with other periodicals
You are in several cases including an ISBN for a modern edition while citing the original edition of a work - it would be preferable to either cite the modern edition (including orig_year if desired) or use an OCLC or other identifying number rather than the incorrect ISBN
Burnham 1944: WorldCat suggests Mary Everett as a co-author
Colby: link given leads to a different article and publication
Be consistent in whether you abbreviate state names in references, or indeed whether you include state names at all (for example, you have both Los Angeles and Los Angeles, California)
Be consistent in whether you include country names in refs and if so how - for example, you usually have just "London" but then "London, England"
Burnham 1912: punctuation doesn't match other books
Davis: are you citing the paperback or hardcover version?
Why is formatting for Du Toit so unlike the other books?
Emdashes should be unspaced
Farwell 1976: link gives different month and volume
Fisher 1930: quote marks within quote marks should be single; check for others
Who is Michael Forster and what is his area of expertise?
Please double-check bibliographic details for Forbes et al; GBooks gives a different author order and publisher name. Please also include volume number
Be consistent in whether editions are spelled out or in numbers
Gann: GBooks and WorldCat both give a different title for that ISBN; please double-check
Haggard 1896: GBooks and WorldCat both give a different title for that ISBN; please double-check
Haggard 1926: Project Gutenberg of Australia was not the original (1926) publisher, and are they really headquartered in London?
Hamilton College: title needs endash, check for others
Holder: doi returns error
Juang: series and volume shouldn't be italicized
No spaces before colons
Be consistent in what capitalization rules you're using for titles and subtitles
Compare publisher name for the first two Lott sources
Compare treatment of volume for the other two Lott sources
Lott 1976: ISSN and OCLC resolve to two different publications, neither of which is entirely consistent with the given citation. Same for Lott 1977
Marston: publication date is actually 2009, the GBooks listing is incorrect
Be consistent in how volume numbers are treated/formatted
Be consistent in what punctuation precedes subtitles
Be consistent in what is wikilinked when in references - for example, Blackwood's is linked the first two times but not the third, should be every time or first time only
Be consistent in whether you include location/publisher for periodicals and in whether you include full page range in References (probably you should for journals and possibly magazines)
Plaster: ISBN leads to original edition; given the updates in 2006, should clarify that this is a new edition and include the new ISBN
Prichard: given citation mixes details of the original and 2004 editions - linked version is the original and has different publisher information. Which version did you consult?
Roosevelt: why does this have page number in References rather than short cite?
Los Angeles Times or The Los Angeles Times? Be consistent
Thrapp: which volume? Be sure to include volume number for multivolume works, and for encyclopedias you may want to include entry name as well.
van Wyk: link goes to GBooks search; should either link directly to the publication in question or not link at all
Weideman: link includes a second author
West 1935: ISSN? Volume?
Wilson: Gale Research is in Detroit, isn't it?
ISSN given is for the Atlanta Constitution is for the index rather than the publication itself
"Animals from Africa": given ISSN is for neither publication
"Arizona National Wildlife Refuges": missing the actual publication name
"Classified Advertising": which issue?
"Ecclesiastical and Clerical": doubled period
ISSN 03624331 is for the Sunday edition of the NYT; there's a separate ISSN for the other editions
"The Fauna of the British Empire": doi goes to a completely different article
"Finest Hour" is actually the name of the journal; what is the title being cited? This ref needs reworking
"Killed the Matabele God: Burnham, the American Scout, May End Uprising" has the ISSN for a different publication
"Personal": link requires login; should either use one that doesn't or note "subscription required"
Press Reference Library is the series name, not part of the title.
Why are we fixing the image size for the lead image? See WP:IMAGESIZE
First note needs clarifying: "latterly" should be "later", and "Congressional" means something quite different from "Congregational"
What is the function of "he met a man he describes as" at the end of the second paragraph of Early life?
Note 2 doesn't really clarify who the Gordons are in relation to the feud, and needs editing for grammar
Marston problematizes Gann's vision of the Shangani Patrol here
Your presentation of the historical debate concerning the Wilson patrol seems to me to be a bit one-sided, particularly in phrasing like "as shaky as it is"
You mention the "findings of the Court of Inquiry", but don't actually say that an inquiry was held or what its findings were
Who are Coghlan and Wools-Sampson?

More later...Nikkimaria (talk) 16:50, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Hi again, guys, I just have some prose suggestions:

"Burnham was distinguished in several battles": Burnham distinguished himself in several battles
"the age of 3": the age of three
"attacked New Ulm, Minnesota, a town near where the Burnhams lived": attacked the nearby town of New Ulm, Minnesota
"how to track Apache by tracing the odor of burning mescal": how to track Apache by detecting the odor of burning mescal
"could follow the mescal odor": could follow the odor
"he met a man he describes as": he met
"he did not yet view himself as a criminal": Why "yet"? Did he view himself as a criminal later on?
"Arizona-Mexico", " "soldier of fortune,": If dash and WP:LQ mistakes are no longer capital offenses at FAC, they at least still raise grimaces.
"Thirty-second Degree Mason": I think "Thirty-Second ..." is more common, but I'm not sure what MOSCAPS says.
I got down to Military career. Bottom line: I don't have a lot to teach you guys, and you have quite a few things to teach me. - Dank (push to talk) 18:17, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Dank. Your comments are on target. I've changed all except "age of 3" to "age of three". Either way is just fine with me, but I'll wait to hear if there is a consensus for this change. Ctatkinson (talk) 17:32, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Close This PR was opened one month ago and no new comments have been posted in the last two weeks. Thanks to everyone for your input. Ctatkinson (talk) 13:03, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]