Forbes Field
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We would like to get this article up to Featured article class. Any suggestions for improvement are welcome.
Thank you, blackngold29 22:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Comments from Dr pda: Overall a nice article. Here are my comments as a non-American, non-baseball fan, most of which relate to the prose.
Lead
- The phrase Pittsburgh Pirates of Major League Baseball (MLB) sounds odd, especially as you don't refer to the Pittsburgh Steelers of the National Football League (NFL). Maybe rephrase as Pittsburgh Pirates Major League Baseball (MLB) team.
- When I read it aloud, third home to and first home to sounded odd. I agree that "home to XXX" is perfectly fine, but with the extra adjective in front I would be more inclined to say third home of
- Done. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- The figure of $1 million occurs a few times in the article, but there is no equivalent in today's currency. You may want to use {{Inflation}}.
- Done, though the template may need cleaned-up; I'm not exactly sure I did it right. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- With a goal should probably be with the goal.
- Done. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- Forbes Field was opened and closed with games between the Pirates and Chicago Cubs. It took me a few seconds to realise that this meant the first ever and last ever games at the stadium were between these two teams. Perhaps rephrase as Forbes Field was opened with a game between the Pirates and Chicago Cubs; the final game at the stadium 62 years later was also between these two teams.
- Done. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- with its batting cage. "Its" here grammatically refers back to the playing surface. Suggest replacing "its" with "the".
- Done. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- Seating was altered multiple times throughout the stadium's life, and fans would be permitted to sit on the grass in the outfield during overflow crowds. I don't see any reason to use "would be" rather than "were", "during" usually refers to a temporal expression, and "and" seems a bit weak joining the two clauses together. How about Seating was altered multiple times throughout the stadium's life; on occasions when the crowd overflowed the stand, fans were permitted to sit on the grass in the outfield.
- Done. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- and though the Steelers struggled, the Pittsburgh Panthers football team had five undefeated seasons The way this is phrased leads to an unexpected change of subject in the second clause. I would group the two successful teams together first, and put the unsuccessful team at the end, perhaps changing "and though" to "however".
- Done. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- Jim O'Brien writes is, "one of the most unique expressions of a love of the game to be found in a major league city."[2] Per WP:PUNC Wikipedia uses logical punctuation, when means the period goes outside the quotation marks when the text quoted is not a complete sentence. Also the comma before the quotation is unnecessary.
- Done. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- In the infobox, the endash in $1–2 million should not be spaced, likewise the emdashes in the dimensions should not be spaced. For the Pittsburgh Americans the date range should use an endash not a hyphen.
- Done. 16:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Planning and design
- The first sentence assumes that people have read the lead and remember all the context. I think it would be better if it was self-contained, i.e. In 1903, Pittsburgh Pirates owner Barney Dreyfuss began to look for grounds to build a replacement for his team's current home of Exposition Park. Also was he looking for land (ground) or reasons (grounds) to build it? Incidentally what was wrong with Exposition Park?
- ,adjacent to Schenley Park should probably have a comma after it as well, if it's a parenthetical phrase.
- Done. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- could put more funding into the stadium itself Why not just "spend more on the stadium itself"
- Done. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- he would, "make the ballpark...of a design that would harmonize with the other structures in the Schenley Park district."[5] Again, the comma before the quote is unnecessary, and the period should come after the quotation mark since it's a sentence fragment. Per WP:ELLIPSIS the ellipsis should have a space before and after it.
- Done. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- however, the comma should be before the word. Likewise in the next sentence "however" does not need a comma after it.
- Done. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- twice the amount. "that" rather than "the" I think.
- Done. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- Unlike established wooden ballparks like the Polo Grounds, Dreyfuss announced This structure implies that Dreyfuss is unlike a wooden ballpark, which while true is not relevant :)
- Reworded. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- and become the nation's first like it. This fragment doesn't make sense.
- Reworded. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- contacted "contacted" or "contracted"?
- I guess it could be either, but lets go with contracted. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- Leavitt founded an engineering and landscape architecture firm in 1897. Do we need to know this? If yes, I would suggest changing the tense to "had founded".
- Sure, why not. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- Based on Dreyfuss' architectural requirements, Leavitt presented a plan for Forbes Field—the only ballpark he would design. Umm, isn't this what normally happens when you want to build something? The fact that it was his only ballpark is relevant, but I would drop the rest of the sentence.
- I don't really see the harm in either of the clauses. Left in for now. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- Pirates' manager Fred Clarke also had input into the stadium's design. What input did Clarke have? Is it what is detailed in the next sentence?
- I assume so, so sentences merged. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- visiting clubhouse similar to the Pirates'. Do you mean a clubhouse for visiting teams?
- Clarified. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- [[French and Indian War|from the French]] may fall foul of WP:EGG
- Changed to [[Battle of Fort Duquesne|captured Fort Duquesne]]. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- just in front of the wall. Which wall?
- Reworded. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Opening
- the following day—June 30, 1909 I don't think the date is necessary; we had the date of teh previous day one sentence earlier.
- Done. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
- The ellipsis in the quote needs to be spaced. Both quotes don't need the comma before them.
- Done. 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Playing surface
- which lead him "led" is the past tense.
- Even at its distance, the fence ranged from 12 feet (3.7 m) in height in left and center field to 9.5 feet (2.9 m) in right field.[6] Should be "this" distance rather than "its".
- the right field grandstand was extended into the corner and into fair territory, reducing the dimension from 376 feet (115 m) to 300 feet (91 m). Into the corner of what? The dimension of what? Fair territory should be linked (or explained); I presume it's the opposite of foul territory.
- the bullpens were moved from foul territory to the base of the scoreboard in left and fenced in, cutting 30 feet (9.1 m) from the left field corner, to 335 feet (102 m). Should it be "left field"? All other occurrences use the word "field". Probably need to add something like reducing it to 335 feet.
- "Shortstop" and "double-play" should be linked or explained.
Seating and tickets
- ticket prices ranged from $1.25 for box seats and $1 for reserved grand stand sections You might want to use {{inflation}} again here (though perhaps not since you say in the next sentence prices were considered high). Also, this appears to be lacking the lower end of the range, i.e. "ranged from X to Y"; you only have "ranged from X".
- When winning streaks would attract high attendance to games, fans were permitted to sit on the grass in right field, provided they would agree to allow a player to catch any ball hit in the area.[23]. Could probably replace "would" with the past tense. Also, "attendance at" rather than "to".
- The highest at the stadium came in 1960, when 1,705,828 people watched the Pirates play at Forbes Field. Don't need both "at the stadium" and "at Forbes Field" in the same sentence.
- On September 30, 1962, 40,916 people This looks a little odd with three numbers in a row. Perhaps it could be rephrased.
- the Pittsburgh Steelers defeat to the New York Giants "loss to" or "defeat by"
Closing and demolition
- The park was the second oldest baseball field in the league Possibly needs a qualifier like "at the time", or "in use". Presumably there were stadiums which were built before it.
- which was initially criticized for not being developed Was that what it was criticised for? Earlier in the article it says the criticism was directed at its distance from downtown, but this abated after the area was developed.
- Possibly "had grown", rather than grew.
- Bill Mazeroski retired Willie Smith for the final out at the stadium. This is slightly too jargon-ish for a non-baseball reader. After reading it a few times I worked that Bill Mazeroski was the pitcher, and got out Willie Smith thereby ending the game, which was the last at the stadium. The sentence could probably do with rephrasing to make it clearer.
- 'The abandoned structure suffered two separate fires that damaged the park, on December 24, 1970 and July 17, 1971. Eleven days after that second fire, demolition began, and the site was cleared for use by the University of Pittsburgh. "damaged the park" is probably not necessary, as damage is implied by the fire. "The second fire" (and no comma) rather than "that second fire,".
Baseball
- comeback As a verb I think this should be two separate words.
- When was the Pirates second World Series win?
- In 1925. It's right after the 1909 sentences.
- hitting a home run in his eighth consecutive game with "his" this implies the excitement was because he hit (one) home run, but had played in eight games in a row. With "an" it implies he had hit a home run in the previous seven games as well.
- Done. 17:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- Might be nice to have a bit of context as to who the Homestead Grays were.
- Expanded. 17:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- played home games at Forbes Field exclusively from 1922 to 1939. What are you trying to imply with exclusively? Would the meaning change if you omitted the word?
- Done. 17:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Football
- did not allow a point "Did not concede any points" perhaps?
- Pitt's second year Is "Pitt" a colloquial reference to the University of Pittsburgh?
- Pitt's teams was led "were" not "was".
- first winning record in 1942; its tenth season of existence. perhaps just "first win", and comma instead of semi-colon.
Boxing and other events
- who he had beaten "whom" not "who"
- Done. 17:33, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Notes
- It is strange to see some books having all their bibliographic information in the footnote, e.g. reference 32, while most of the books have only a short reference in the footnote (e.g. Gershman 1993, p. 90) and full details in the references section.
- Refs 58 and 62 should indicate the format is pdf.
- The University of Pittsburgh navbox at the bottom does not seem to include Forbes Field. Is it necessary? The University is linked earlier in the article.
Images
- You should check that the images tagged as being PD because they were published before 1923 were actually published and not just taken before 1923.
- Done, with File:Forbes Field and street.jpg questionable. Grsz11 16:50, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
- File:Forbes Field exterior.jpg gives the wrong Library of Congress digital identifier.
- Done. 16:50, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Hope you find these comments helpful. If so, you may like to review an article from the Peer review backlog, which is where I found this article. Dr pda (talk) 10:56, 24 April 2009 (UTC)