Wikipedia:Peer review/Blood on the Floor (Turnage)/archive1

Blood on the Floor (Turnage)

Blood on the Floor is a 1996 orchestral composition by Mark-Anthony Turnage. I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to get comments before taking this to GAN. I'm considering taking it to FA as well, as this is my first more substantial article (>2000 words). As I am a classical musician, please excuse me as I may have used jazz terminology in the wrong way. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks, Schminnte (talk • contribs) 20:46, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley

Initial comments after first canter-through looking for typos etc

• nonfunctional harmony – the OED hyphenates "non-functional"
• for a evening jazz event – "an" wanted rather than "a"
• pieces from George Gershwin, Leonard Bernstein and George Antheil – "from" is perhaps a touch misleading, suggesting (to me at least) that they were contributions to the programme written specially. I think perhaps "pieces by George Gershwin ..." might be clearer.
• Probably the nastiest thing I have written – we really don't need a six-word block quote. This should be inline.
• centered around slowly moving chords – "centred", please, and some people (not me) get aerated by the idea of centring round anything rather than centring on it. I have no strong views on the matter and merely mention it for your consideration.
• fulfills "the idea of a prologue" – the OED admits "fulfill", but "fulfil" is preferred and is more usual (though admittedly less logical, but when did logic have any bearing on English spelling?)
• Blood on the Floor was premiered in London in May 1996. The premiere took place at the Queen Elizabeth Hall – a bit wordy: it would be more concise as "Blood on the Floor was premiered in London in May 1996 at the Queen Elizabeth Hall".
• Due to social distancing rules, Hamer Hall had to operate under full capacity for the concert. – Two points here: first, in formal BrE "due to" is not generally accepted as a compound preposition on a par with "owing to" (though it is thus accepted in AmE, I think). "Owing to" or, better, "because of" is safer. Secondly, I'm not sure why we need to know that the audience numbers had to be reduced for the performance.
• Turnage is interested in 'urban alienation' – in this block quote you should use Wikipedia's default double quotes rather than single ones.

More anon, after I've reread the article concentrating on its actual content. I'm looking forward to it. – Tim riley talk 13:08, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for this batch of comments Tim. I'll look over them sometime today. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 13:11, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

@Tim riley, all points should now have been addressed. On a closer inspection, I have also changed all occurrences of me writing "piece" instead of "suite": I don't know why I did that! It's definitely a suite. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 14:05, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

I am committed to doing a GAN review of another article tomorrow, and hope to get to my substantive contribution to this peer review on Friday. Tim riley talk 18:24, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

I'd say that calling the article of our new monarch "another article" is a bit of an understatement! I completely understand that it might be a long review for that; I can wait :) Schminnte (talk • contribs) 19:45, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Concluding batch from TR

The article I was reviewing about HM is in good shape and I didn't have to spend ages raising points, and so here I am. A few minor drafting points which you may or may not wish to consider:

• "During the composition of Blood on the Floor, Turnage consulted with Martin Robertson" – does one consult with people rather than just consult them? Ditto in the main text.
  • removed "with"
• "Drumkit" – here et passim: both the OED and Grove make "drum kit" two words.
  • rectified
• "some little used instruments" – I agree with the comment in Plain Words, "If you take hyphens seriously you will surely go mad", but I must risk it here and suggest that one is needed to turn the meaning from "little instruments that are used" to "instruments that are little used".
  • I see your point. done
• "players are instructed to play scaffolding pipes" – I claim no expertise on the matter, but I thought they were called scaffolding poles. I leave the matter entirely in your hands. I notice, though, that whatever they are called they are not mentioned in the extensive list of percussion instruments.
  • I believe we are both wrong: further research shows that the correct (?) term is tubes
    • Excellent! Always good to increase one's knowledge. Tim riley talk 12:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
• "the musician who coined the term "third stream"—at Tanglewood" – Tanglewood is linked later, but I think the link should be moved up to this first mention.
  • True. Done
• "Martin Robertson, who is professor of saxophone" – just a reminder to beware of WP:DATED. MR will not be professor at the RCM forever. Rather than muck about with "as at 2023" or suchlike you could just lose the "who is" and the sentence will do nicely till the crack of doom.
  • Removed, don't want to tempt fate!
• "Other works by Bacon influence elements of the suite, as well a painting by Heather Betts" – you mean, I think, that Betts as well as Bacon influenced the suite, but as it stands, the sentence says that Bacon influenced both the suite and Betts.
  • Done
• "his brother Andrew, who died to a drug overdose" – does one die to rather than of?
  • done
• "Blood on the Floor is written as a concerto grosso" – you very properly give us a blue link here (and in the lead) but I wonder if a few words explaining the term might be helpful here, to save the reader clicking away from your article. Just a thought, which ignore if you think it misplaced.
  • done
    • Good. I think that's both concise and helpful. Tim riley talk 12:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
• "Instrumentation": I have no intention of admitting how many of the percussion instruments I had never heard of, and happily you have blue-linked the lot. Bravo!
  • It took a while, some were given different names (Bonshō = Japanese temple bells). Mr. Turnage certainly likes his percussion!
    • I'd back Betsy Jolas against him in the percussion stakes: a few years ago I heard Rattle and the LSO in her delectable A Little Summer Suite, an absolute charmer despite a battery of percussion the like of which I've never seen before or since, including instruments I couldn't name or even guess the function of. At least two of the seven percussionists were wielding violin bows at various points, God knows why. Tim riley talk 12:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
• "Each movement features different instrumentation and amount of players" – "amount" seems a little odd: perhaps "number"?
  • Sure
• "During his first month conducting the Berlin Philharmonic, Simon Rattle conducted" – an infelicitous repetition: perhaps "During his first month as music director of the Berlin Philharmonic" (or whatever his title was)?
  • done
• "The suite received mixed reception" – I think "a mixed reception" would be more usual than just "mixed reception"
  • done

That's my lot. This is a top-notch article, and I don't see why you shouldn't take to FAC when you are ready. Please ping me if you do. – Tim riley talk 20:14, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

@Tim riley: All points should be done. Me being shameless, I'm going to go to GA first for the sake of a Four Award! Thank you for your review, and I will ping you when I take this article to FAC (when now, not if). Schminnte (talk • contribs) 11:53, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Good wishes for your GAN. I think the article will walk it. Tim riley talk 12:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Comments from MyCatIsAChonk

Excited to see another composition article from you- Happy to review! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 22:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Background/Composition

• Before working with the Ensemble Modern for Bloor on the Floor, Turnage had previously collaborated... "Previously" is not needed, since "Before" has already established the time... also, wikilink Ensemble Modern
  • done
• During his compositional process, Turnage used sketches he had produced prior during a period of collaboration with Martin Robertson... There's a bit too much alliteration here for my taste; also, when is "prior"? Perhaps, "During his compositional process, Turnage used sketches he had produced in (year) with Martin Robertson..."
  • Removed prior, couldn't find a year, but "had" implies sometime in the past so I'm fine with that.
• Is Bacon's painting Blood on the Floor different from Blood on Pavement? If not, wikilink Blood on Pavement. Same for the lead.
  • It is different, but there is no article on it. Maybe a future project?
• Due to this, the music in Blood on the Floor is often quite harsh. On the music he composed for the suite, Turnage commented that it was "probably the nastiest thing I have written". Think this could be condensed to, "Due to this, the music in Blood on the Floor is often quite harsh, with Turnage commenting that it was "probably the nastiest thing I have written"."
  • I agree. Done

Instrumentation/Structure and music

• "Instrumentation" looks good
• ...some passages feature tonal ideas but there... Comma after ideas
  • done
• For example in bars... Comma after example
  • done
• In "III. Shout", describe how exactly the scaffolding is played. Is it smacked together like an auxiliary percussion instrument? Is it blown into like a flute?
  • Lowery, 2008, states that it is used as "non-pitched percussion": done
• The sketch was not used in the concerto, as if it was the piece would have had two slow movements. In Turnage's opinion, this would have "been overdoing it". This is a bit confusing to me. Firstly, I think the quote could be integrated into the first sentence it make it more smooth. Perhaps, "Though, the sketch was not used in the concerto because Turnage thought this would have "been overdoing it"." Additionally, remove the indent in the following sentence.
  • Merged, break has been removed
• ...which continually interrupts the solo electric guitar line at letter D. Including the rehearsal letter is unnecessary detail, replace it with e general idea. The middle? The end?
  • As the electric guitar solo is mentioned in the first sentence, I directly referenced that section (...continually interrupts the electric guitar solo)
• ...a piece played by Turnage at his brother's funeral... What's the name of the piece?
  • I haven't managed to find that out, hence the ambiguous phrasing.
• Remove wikilink from Puccini since "Madama Butterfly" is linked
  • done
• Merge "Motifs" into one paragraph, it looks nicer visually
  • I agree, merged

Performances/Reception/Recordings

• The suite was then performed a year later by the Ensemble Modern at the Salzburg Festival in August 1997. Having "a year later" and "in August 1997" is unnecessary- I think you only need to keep one.
  • Yes, removed "a year later" as it is less precise.
• Ivan Hewett of The Times appraised how... Hewett is not a permanent staff writer for The Times, so it should be phrased "Ivan Hewett wrote in The Times..."
  • done
• Wikilink easy listening
  • done
• Place a ref at the end of the blockquote
  • done
• Wikilink Marvin in the blockquote
  • done
• The refs in the "Recordings" table should be centered using style="text-align:center;"
  • done

Notes, references and sources

• It would be preferable (but not required) for all the web sources to have access dates.
  • All websites are accesable today, so I have added this dated to 18/05/2023
• Ref 14 needs author
  • done
• No citations link to Pople & Cook 2004; User:Ucucha/HarvErrors helps find this
  • removed
• St. Peter's College is a disambig page; User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors can help find these
  • done

Lead/General

• The painting article in the hatnote should be changed to Blood on the Floor (painting), as Blood on the Floor (Painting, 1986) is a redirect; see WP:HNR
  • It was changed after I created the disamb page. Changed hatnote
• Lead looks good, I think it covers all the necessary points.
• File:Mark-Anthony Turnage at 2014 Cabrillo Festival of Contemporary Music.jpg has been waiting for a review from an administrator for eight months now- not sure what you can do about it, but thought this was worth commenting
  • From a quick look, the YouTube video is CC-BY licensed, so I think it is ok.

That's all from me, this article is very good already. I was listening to the suite while I wrote and wow, is this a unique suite! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 22:56, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for these points @MyCatIsAChonk, nice to see you around again! I'll look over them at the next chance I get. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 07:10, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

@MyCatIsAChonk, I think I have resolved all these points. Thank you for the extra pair of eyes! Schminnte (talk • contribs) 16:21, 18 May 2023 (UTC)