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"Battling Bessie" Braddock, with her unmistakeable 15-stone frame and determined jawline, was for 40 years a Merseyside legend, a politician of conviction and determination spiced with a fair amount of vindictiveness. She made an uncomfortable enemy, but was much loved by those – generally the poorest and least privileged – on whose behalf she expended her energies as councillor and member of parliament. She never held ministerial office, and initiated very little legislation, yet more half a century after her heyday she remains in the memory far more clearly than do a host of cabinet office holders from that era. Oddly for such a famous chararcter there is no full-length biography (a brief 1957 hagiography by one Millie Toole lacks all objectivity and is pretty well useless), but I have drawn heavily on what's available, and I hope that a faithful picture emerges. All comments welcomed.


Thanks, Brianboulton (talk) 15:48, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by User:Dirtlawyer1: edit

Infobox

  1. What is the current MOS or WikiProject guidance on multiple links for city (city, county, constituent state or country, sovereign nation) when stating a birth place or place of death in an infobox?
  2. I suggest you link Labour Party in the infobox for reader convenience. Redundant links in infobox and text are acceptable.
  3. What is the current MOS guidance on the use of single quote marks in articles written in British/Commonwealth English?
  • I'm no expert on infobox conventions, but I have removed overlinking, linked the Labour Party, and doubled up on the single quote marks. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  1. My first degree was a political science bachelor's in an East European Studies program, before I flipped to economics (second bachelor's and master's), and then law (J.D., LL.M.). So I know to what you're referring when you say "undemocratic centralism," a euphemism for the top-down ideology and strict party discipline of Marxist-Leninist parties. Ironically, the CPSU called the doctrine "democratic centralism," which in practical terms more often meant plenty of "centralism" and precious little "democracy". That said, could you use a less euphemistic term in the lead, one which our general readership would immediately grasp?
  1. The passage "in general she was a diligent and hard-working MP" reads a little like the writer injecting editorial comment in the form of personal admiration. I suggest you rephrase, or find a sourced quote that expresses the editorial comment you want.
  1. What was the practical significance of being on the "right wing" of the Labour Party in the 1950s and 1960s?
  • I think this is covered in the text. The political terms "left-wing" and "right-wing" are sufficiently known, I believe, not to require further explanation in the lead. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Childhood

  1. Did either mother or daughter have a role in Bloody Sunday other than that of bystander? Were either organizers or active protesters?
  • I'd say bystanders – Bessie was barely 12 at the time. Her account records what she and her mother saw. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

ILP years

  1. You might want to parenthetically define the current value of 5 bob a week, both for non-Brits, as well as Britons under a certain age.
  • This is a bugbear of mine. There is no FAC convention that requires these comparisons, and I see little value in calculations which attempt to compare conditions in two entirely different worlds – today's consumer-driven economy with the low-waged, minimalist economies of 100 years ago. Unsurprisingly, different methods produce widely different results; the Mearuringworth websites equates five bob a week in 1913 with "between £21.97 and £185.80" in 2014, with lots of technical explanation. How helpful is that? This information will be incomprehensible to many readers, and frankly it's not worth the bother. Most readers will perceive that a few shillings a week was pretty much a pittance, even in 1913. Brianboulton (talk) 10:04, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. The passage "she and others resisted the efforts of the British Empire Union to capture the ILP's red flag" deserves some explanation and detail about the subject's role. Unless I'm misunderstanding your meaning, that sounds dangerously like a street fight or riot over the party's red banner.
  • That's about the size of it. A "hands off Russia" march in 1917 was likely to arouse anger among more traditionally-minded groups, and the prominent red flag would be an obvious target for their ire. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Is "Co-op" a shortened form of the proper name? Is capitalization proper in local usage?
  1. I suggest you link or explain the "industrial action" euphemism. Its meaning will be lost on most Americans.
  • I've made it "agitation for improving labour conditions"
  1. I suggest you add a detail for the curious: "slim margin of 13 votes" -- out of how many cast in total?
  • The sources don't say, but I reckon that, in a public election, a margin of 13 will be generally recognised as "slim".

Communist activist

  1. "The couple did not endear themselves to the CPGB hierarchy when, on egalitarian grounds, they opposed the levels of salary which the party wanted to pay to its full-time officials." I bet. Like Orwell said, some of the animals are more equal than others. LOL
  2. "a token one day's imprisonment" -- do we subtly distinguish between long-term prison sentences and short-term jail/gaol time in British English? In American English, "imprisonment" would carry the implication of hard time, not an overnight in the county pokey.
  • In English courts, one day's imprisonment means you're free to go when the case concludes. It is, as the article says, a token or nominal punishment, like a one-cent fine. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Did the subject really run a spy network and/or infiltration operation for other labor and left-wing political organizations? Are there more details available? Any details regarding the practical results of such operations?
  • I've removed the detail of Bessie's spy ring. I'm sure it sounds much more sinister than it was; we only have Bessie's uncorroborated word that the network existed at all. She provides no details of numbers, or of what information they provided, or what use she made of it. Best left out, I think. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Was there a precipitating event regarding the subject's break with the CPGB?

Liverpool city councillor

  1. I think you need to link "socialist" in the first sentence, or at some earlier point in the article, don't you?
  2. "In the 1926 General Strike, Jack's role in the Merseyside Council of Action . . ." Do you want to say "in" or "after" here?
  3. I think you should link "Co-operative Insurance Society" in the third sentence.
  4. Some brief explanation of the "council" may be in order in the first paragraph; there is no antecedent reference to which council is the subject here.
  5. What the heck is a "temporary decanting facility"? I'm an oenophile, but I suspect you are using the word "decant" in a more metaphorical sense here.
  • I smiled at this. Apart from its bibulous associations, the word has a secondary meaning of moving people from one place to another. I agree, though, that its use here could lead to some head-scratching, so I've reworded. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. "Verminous"? What percentage of our readers will know that one?! Perhaps "vermin-infested" or "overrun by vermin"?
  • Surely, "verminous" in not unusual? It's meaning seems unmistakeable. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Is capitalization of "Mayor" in the fifth paragraph appropriate?
  2. Did the Liverpool council really have a Conservative majority in the 1930s, or are you referring to the national government as the "ruling conservatives"?
  • The Conservatives controlled the council from its inception until 1955. Thereafter, except for a brief spell in 1961–63, they never regained it. Odd, isn't it?. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. "She was outspoken in her attacks on fascist groups, and in her defence of those who attacked their parades" -- meaning persons who physically attacked fascist parades?
  • Yes, those parades were magnets for street violence. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. "The death of Mary Bamber in June 1938, at the age of 63, was a considerable personal blow . . ." might be better if you wrote "The death her mother Mary Bamber . . ." rather than forcing the casual reader to go back looking for who Bamber was.

Second World War

  1. ". . . joined the Liverpool Ambulance Service as a driver, attached to G Division" -- "G Division" of what exactly?
  2. "active councillors" -- again to what council are we referring?

Labour government 1945–51

  1. Suggest expanding "The expectations of victory in Liverpool Exchange" to "The expectations of a Labour victory in Liverpool Exchange" for clarity.
  2. General comment: I am somewhat unsure how to react to the familiar use of "Bessie" throughout most of the text. I understood the use in those sections where you the discussion of husband and wife's careers were interlaced . . . what's your considered take here?
  • I raised this very point with a wiki-colleague at an earlier stage in the article's development (I hope that in due couse he will append comments here). We agreed that the uses of "Bessie" and "Jack" is the least worst option, given the concurrence of their careers for all but then final years of Bessie's life. To call her "Braddock" before her marriage would not make sense; to suddenly adopt the surname after Jack's death could be very confusing. A similar problem arose in the article on Imogen Holst, when I used the name "Imogen" throughout, to avoid confusion with her more famous father. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll have my review ready over the weekend, but for the moment I'm just adding my two-penn'orth on this question of how to name the subject of the article. I think Brian expresses it precisely: calling her "Bessie", though not ideal, is the least unacceptable of the available options. We can't call her "Braddock", because, regrettable though the implied sexism is, most readers confronted with a Jack Braddock and a Bessie Braddock both of whom loom large in the text will take a plain surname to refer to the husband. As BB says, we discussed this sort of problem when the Imogen Holst article was reviewed en route to FA (where, by the bye, the use of given name was not thought to be a problem, so we have a decent precedent.) If there had been no looming Gustav we would have called her Holst, and if there was no ubiquitous Jack here we could have called the lady "Braddock" without the risk of confusing readers, but as it is, I think "Bessie", though uncomfortably matey, is the best way of naming her. Clarity trumps style, I should say, in such cases. The Manual of Style seems to support this view: WP:SAMESURNAME. – Tim riley talk 17:53, 19 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. What was the significance of the Liverpool Cotton Association? Can we link this a helpful article?
  • Can't see any useful link. The Cotton Association was an employers' organisation that acted on their behalf. I think Bessie's denunciation is clear enough. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. I don't understand why "she moved over to the Opposition benches where she occupied the seat usually used by Mr Churchill" -- was she somehow taunting the Tories by sitting in Winston's usual seat after the nationalization debate?
  • Part of the mayhem, and yes, an element of Churchill-baiting, too. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. "Nationally Labour lost many seats" - how many exactly?
  2. "her experiences as a juvenile court magistrate" - when was she a magistrate? No prior explanation.
  • None of the sources, including the autobiography, say when she became a magistrate ("justice of the peace", as we say in our quaint way). Probably during the 1930s after her election to Liverpool council, but I've no source. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1950s: Rightward shift

  1. Is there a quote from Churchill regarding her appointment to the Percy Commission?
  1. "remained on the council as a co-opted alderman" - "Co-opted alderman" needs some explanation.
  • The explanation is in the link, "a council member chosen by the elected members themselves rather than by popular vote". In this case I'd rather rely on the link than clutter the text with an explanation. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Campaigns and controversies, 1956–59

  1. Any details on alleged/proven misconduct by prison officials?
  1. "visited Russia at the invitation of the mayor of Odessa" - Odessa is actually a Ukrainian, not Russian port. No meaning is lost if you substitute the Soviet Union for Russia.
  2. "Gwynfor Evans sought addressed the council" - Did you mean "Gwynfor Evans sought to address the council"?

Later career, 1960–68

  1. "aldermanic term on Liverpool's council" - Is "aldermanic" a proper adjective form in British English? Is there a difference between aldermen and other councillors?
  • "aldermanic" is fine. The difference is explained in the link.
  1. She was obviously a physically large woman -- do we know how tall she was?
  • Not recorded. From photographs she doesn't seem paryticularly tall, but very rotund. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. So, she was a socialist, but also a committed democrat, correct? It wouldn't hurt to say that explicitly somewhere.
  • Being a socialist and a democrat is perfectly compatible; the British Labour Party is a democratic socialist party as are many others throughought the world. The article earlier states that Bessie and Jack left the Communist Party, to pursue their objectives through democratic means within the Labour Party. "Socialist" is a very broad label, at least in British and European parlance. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Final years and death

  1. Cause of death?
  • Not stated, even in her obituaries. She had been ill for a year or more, I suspect from some form of cancer, which was not widely discussed at that time and would explain the reticence about revealing the cause of death. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment

  1. You probably should create a redirect for "Battling Bessie" and add the nickname to the Wikidata profile for the article.
  • Not sure, will think more.

That's all I have for now. I think the article is a good read and an interesting character study of a significant politician with whom I previously had no familiarity. I will be curious to read whatever you may add to it. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:35, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Many, many thanks for this very thorough examination. Where I have not provided an answer, I have followed your suggestions either exactly or near enough, or have made a simple text change. Will continue to ponder a few issues. Brianboulton (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt edit

Hadn't heard of her either. Nevertheless very interesting and I will second Dirtlawyer that it is a good read. A few specifics:

Lede
  • "1945–51 parliaments" I would make it clearer further up that the reason you have singled out these parliaments is because they, and no others, were led by Attlee. You do throw in a mention of the Attlee ministry a bit further on, but I'm not sure it fully illuminates things.
  • I don't find being suspended inconsistent with being a diligent/hard working MP, so I'm not sure why the contrast.
  • I've amended the lead to accommodate these points. Brianboulton (talk) 23:17, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Childhood
  • "moved to Smollett Street, one of several moves " perhaps the first could be "relocated"?
  • "broke up after a baton charge by police and troops" perhaps "was broken up by a baton charge etc" or even have the baton charge doing the breaking-up.
Communist
  • "Moscow" Is that where the Political Bureau was located then (1922)? I see Moscow was only becoming the capital.
  • "Decanting" that may be unfamiliar to many American, who may reach for their copy of Brave New World in confusion.
  • Possibly some of the workhouse/cathedral discussion could be pared.
  • I've cut it down a bit, but as this was the event that propelled BB into public life, I think the essential details should remain. Brianboulton (talk) 23:17, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Campaigns
  • "subsequent reforms" Aren't all reforms?
  • Odessa is not in Russia.
  • "its Second House of Commons reading" Why the cap on "Second"?
Later career
  • "with a small majority ... majority". I would say that Wilson's majority may be more easily dispensed with, though he may not have thought so in 1974.
  • "a job" so that's what the Labour Party's brought an honourable position in HMG to.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:03, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for these commons which, by and large, I have addressed per your suggestions. Brianboulton (talk) 23:17, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Comments from a Scouse git (a.k.a. TR) edit

First batch, down to the end of Second World War section. Comments on Lead left till last as per.

  • Childhood
    • Peer reviews sometimes seem to merge into an endless game of hunt-the-hyphen. BB winged one of mine recently, and now comes the return shot: the OED doesn't hyphenate "bookbinder".
    • Don't we usually italicise née?
    • "a well-to-do Edinburgh lawyer" – you may like to keep in reserve the fact that when "well-to-do" was challenged as an Anglicism at one of my reviews, a swift rummage in online dictionaries of Australian, American, Indian, Irish etc English found it in use in all of them.
      • Tim, I think you had a better command of the vernacular than your reviewer. "Well-to-do" is a common expression in American English, and is by no means restricted to BrE. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:27, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • I am obliged to my learned friend for that endorsement. Tim riley talk 16:52, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Mary became an active trade union organiser and campaigner" – as opposed to an inactive one?
    • "relocated to Smollett Street" – could do with a bit of context. Moving from Everton to brutal Bootle where the bugs wear clogs is only about 3½ miles, but took her out of Liverpool to darkest Lancashire in those days.
    • No more information given, but I've added Bootle to the address. Brianboulton (talk) 10:26, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • "helped to run at St George's Plateau" – I spend much time objecting to "on So-and-So Street" in English articles as opposed to the native "in So-and-So Street", but here I think I'd write "on St George's Plateau". It's pretty big, and one is, well, on it. "At", later on, seems fine, though, so ignore me on this point if you prefer.
    • "By this time, Mary Bamber" – not sure why the comma, though I don't object furiously
  • ILP years
    • "a post in the drapery department of the Liverpool Co-operative store" – this reads as though there was only one Co-op store in Liverpool, but there were lots. I remember getting my divvy in the Rice Lane branch.
    • "at the ILP's Kensington headquarters" – blue link notwithstanding I think most readers will assume the Kensington is the original London location. I don't think the precise location within the city is important here, and I'd just make it "at the ILP's local headquarters".
    • "a wagon-builder" – anyone for hyphens? The OED reckons this one is just "wagon builder". (Not, you understand, that I am obsessed with hyphens, and I may be able to reduce the medication quite soon.)
    • "He had arrived in Liverpool in 1915 hoping to emigrate to Canada" – I think you really ought to say from where he had arrived, or, if we don't know, say as much.
    • "by the slim margin of 13 votes" – do we need to be told that 13 was a slim margin?.
  • Communist activist
    • "registry office" – there are those (not me) who get aerated about this and insist – correctly but pedantically – that it should be "register office".
    • The OD of E allows both forms, and I feel that the former is probably more usual (and in line with the sources). Brianboulton (talk) 10:26, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Neither of the Braddocks were comfortable as CPGB members" – is there a grammatical hiccup here, with "neither" getting plural nouns and verbs rather than the singular? Not quite sure, but I mention it for your consideration.
  • Liverpool council
    • "The Liverpool council? It was the Corporation, surely? I don't believe Liverpool had a city council till the fatuous 1973 local government reorganisations.
    • You're right, of course, but "council" is a general and widely understood term for municipal authorities even when the formal name is/was different. Is the nomenclature important enough to warrant changing all the references to the "council"? Brianboulton (talk) 10:26, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • "was 85% Catholic" – not that I care, but the MoS would have us use "per cent" in text rather than the % symbol.
    • "However, an intense campaign" – the second "however" in one paragraph. I'd blitz this one, if I were you.

That's all for this batch. More soonest. I'm enjoying this. Tim riley talk 16:18, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Second and concluding batch from Tim:

  • Links
    • Warehouse Workers' Union – is linked (to USDAW) at second mention, rather than first.
    • Manchester Guardian is linked twice in the Labour government 1945–51 section.
  • Capitalisation and italicisation of newspapers
    • the Manchester Guardian, the News of the World, the Daily Express, the Bolton Evening News, but The Guardian.
  • Labour government 1945–51
  • Campaigns and controversies, 1956–59
    • "rebuked by the deputy speaker" – he was the Deputy Speaker in the previous section.
    • "Bessie and Jack visited the Soviet Union" – you might perhaps get away from first names here by making them "the Braddocks"
  • Final years and death
    • You haven't made it clear that Bessie ceased to be an MP at the June 1970 election.

That's all from me. Well up to standard and I look forward to rereading the article come FAC. – Tim riley talk 16:29, 21 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I have acted on all your points save those commented on, which I will leave unless you feel adamant – please let me know. Brianboulton (talk) 10:26, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Placet. Tim riley talk 15:54, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SchroCat edit

I've made a few tweaks here and there, but all, I think, along the lines of the MoS: please feel free to revert what you don't agree with.

Childhood
  • "highest infant mortality": I feel there should be "rate" in there somewhere...
Communist activist
  • "Liverpool's unemployed, organised by the Liverpool Unemployed...": perhaps the first part could be "the city's jobless" for variety?
Refs
  • You have two sources listed that I don't think are used in the article and should probably be removed:
  • "Liverpool Tory triumph on school issue". The Manchester Guardian. 2 November 1938.
  • "The November Elections: Liverpool and grants to Roman Catholic schools". The Manchester Guardian. 27 October 1938.

Hope these minor and trivial points help: please give me a nudge when you go to FAC. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 21:07, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks. Minor prose amendemnts done. The two redundant sources, now removed, related to material that did not survive the cut during final polishings. I'm most grateful for your help. Brianboulton (talk) 16:38, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts from Cliftonian edit

Sorry to have taken so long to get over here. I'll note thoughts as I go through.

  • "With her formidable physique and outspoken manner, Braddock was a pugnacious presence in parliament, a keen supporter of the 1945–51 Attlee ministry's reform agenda, particularly the establishment of the National Health Service in 1948." Think you may need to change the second comma here for "and".
  • "They told me how the capitalists controlled money, business and the land, and how they hung on to them" I presume this is a quote from Bessie?
  • Yes. Quotes in a biographical article that contain "me" or "I" can generally be assumed to be from the subject. In this case I think the context makes this doubly clear. Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, I got that, but what I meant was when/where did she say or write this. —  Cliftonian (talk)  21:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps wikilink Russian Revolution
  • Presumably by saying "Hands of Russia", she and the others were opposing Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War?
  • "leader of the National Unemployed Workers Committee Movement" missing a full stop after this
  • "which aimed to raise the levels of Poor Law relief to a proper subsistence level" what they deemed a proper subsistence level, no? what this level was then or is now is open to debate.
  • "only intermittently employed, as his incendiary reputation meant that employers were reluctant to give him a job" we have derivatives of "employ" twice in short succession, suggest changing one of them

Have to rush off for family things, will come back to finish later. Sorry —  Cliftonian (talk)  19:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, there was a minor crisis but I've sorted it out now. On with the read-through.

  • "on one occasion she was ejected from the council chamber by the police, after calling the Housing Committee chairman a liar and refusing the mayor's order to withdraw." I might remove the comma and change "after calling" to "after she called". Also, by "withdraw" do we mean that the mayor ordered her to leave, or that he ordered her to retract the comment?
  • perhaps where we mention Everton constituency, enlarge the wikilink to cover all of those two words so it is clear this is a different link rather than a repetition of the one to the geographical area of Everton further up the article.
  • I have only been to Liverpool once in my life (to see Luton play there in the cup—we lost), so I have very little local knowledge. What kind of area did the Liverpool Exchange constituency cover? Working class area or more prosperous? Centre of the city?
  • I've added a bit, including some explanation as to why the seat remained in Tory hands for so long. Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the Conservative, Sir John Shute" I'm not sure you need the comma here
  • "by the advent of the Second World War." I think you could just say "by the Second World War".
  • "she records that she drove her ambulance through the all the 68 major air raids that struck Liverpool during the war years" do any sources other than Bessie herself corroborate this? (I'm not disputing it, I'm just saying it would buttress the claim if any of them do)
  • I don't think it's something that would be independently recorded, so I think we must rely on her word. Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • We introduce and wikilink John Shute twice, once under "Liverpool council" and again under "Labour MP".
  • "wasteful, "the ridiculous whim of idle people"" perhaps change the comma here to an emdash.
  • "was involved in fisticuffs after the unexpected success of Bevanite candidates in the NEC elections" what does this mean? who did she get into a fight with and where? What happened?
  • Source says "fisticuffs", but I doubt whether this was a full-blooded punch-up. I've modified the wording to "scuffles with other delegates". Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the first sentence under "Campaigns and controversies, 1956–59" we have "prisoners" twice. Perhaps change the second instance to "inmates".
  • We infer that Odessa is in "Russia", but nowadays it's in Ukraine. Personally I've no problem with using "Russia" as a synonym for the Russian Empire and/or the USSR in the respective historical contexts, but some people do. Just thought I'd mention it as it may come up at FAC.
  • "the Welsh Nationalist Gwynfor Evans" not sure we need the capital "N" here.
  • "The slogan Cofia Dryerwyn ("Remember Tryweryn") was adopted" by whom? Welsh nationalists? Long-standing or prominent slogan?
  • We wikilink "Trotskyists" under "later career, 1960–68", but not further up where they're mentioned earlier.
  • How did Jack Braddock die? Heart attack or something like that presumably if it was so sudden?
  • "Bessie achieved her best personality majority" I think we mean "personal majority"
  • "However, in February 1969 she collapsed with exhaustion and was hospitalised" where did she collapse? In the House?
  • which hospital did she die in? one of the ones in Liverpool, yes? what did she die from, do we know?
  • I've added the hospital, and also a quote from Wilson's funeral tribute. As to what she died from, all sources are silent. I suspect that it was some form of cancer; the word was never mentioned in those days. The most common euphemism was "after a long illness", which seems applicable in Bessie's case. Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "writing articles attacking the Labour leadership for right-wing newspapers" perhaps reorder this to "writing articles for right-wing newspapers attacking the Labour leadership"
  • I think it works better as it is; it was specifically Foot's articles that attacked the Labour readership and thus riled Bessie. The suggested rewording tends to muddy this. Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's an endash in the "Assessment" section that should, for consistency's sake, really be an emdash.
  • I'd suggest putting the very last paragraph before the penultimate one, then merging the two into one paragraph.

And I think that's me lot. Thank you for the very interesting read about this woman I knew nothing about. Finely done, I think, and well on the way. I hope this helps. Thanks again and I hope you have a great weekend as we approach Advent. Cheers, —  Cliftonian (talk)  20:49, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am very grateful for this review, which was certainly worth waiting for. I've only responded where I haven't adopted your suggestions, which by and large are most helpful. Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad to have been of some help along the way. Sorry for taking so long to look in. Inexcusable of me, really. Hope you're well —  Cliftonian (talk)  21:40, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from the Doctor edit

  • Perhaps add , Merseyside after Bootle?♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:06, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bootle is linked, but I've made it "nearby Bootle" Brianboulton (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:19, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • joint autobiography? Who with? I presume Jack, but not immediately obvious to me. You say she got very close to Jack but I see nothing about marriage to make it obvious.
  • Pretty obviously with Jack, I'd have thought, but I've emphasised the point to clarify any doubt. I don't really see the problem with the second point. They met, became close, campaigned together and eventually got married. Brianboulton (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "joined G Division of the Liverpool Ambulance Service" - would a "the" be better here before G Division, I ask Tim riley as he's a definite article master ;-) I'd say it's probably OK as it is.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:59, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He was rescued by the action of a liberal-minded industrialist" -do we know who it was?
  • Thanks for spotting this. I thought I had included the name, but clearly hadn't – now done. Brianboulton (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:19, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and in 1926 they joined the Fairfeld ward of the Liverpool Labour Party.[n 1] In the 1929 Liverpool council elections, " -the dates jar with me a bit here. I'm not sure how you can reword though as further down you say "a year later".
  • I think it's OK. They joined the party in 1926. In 1929 Jack won a council seat. A year later Bessie joined him. I don't see any lack of clarity here. Brianboulton (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She did not support Aneurin Bevan when he resigned from the government in April 1951 over the introduction of National Health Service charges;[67] she later asserted that, by making dissidence fashionable, Bevan had "weakened the [Labour] National Executive to the point where it could no longer deal effectively with infiltrating Trotskyists and Communists".[68] In 1955 her opposition to the Bevanite faction was such that she supported efforts by Hugh Gaitskell and Herbert Morrison to have Bevan expelled from the party.[69] She " -there's quite a few "she" s in there, can you vary one?
  • " and in 1953" -perhaps say "the following year" instead to avoid repetition of dates?
  • There's actually no repetition of a year. It's an arguable point, but I've left it.
  • " At her funeral service a " -do we know the church it was at?
  • It wasn't at a church, it was a crematorium (Bessie wasn't religious). I'll rummage around to find out which it was.

I'm used to high quality from you Brian but this was an absolute delight to read. Impeccably well written and easy to learn from (as the best articles should be).♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:23, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for those very kind words and for your review comments which are much appreciated. Brianboulton (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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