Wikipedia:Peer review/Bal des Ardents/archive1

Bal des Ardents

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like feedback and an extra set of eyes. It's a topic I read about and found interesting. At some point I may submit to FAC

Thanks, Truthkeeper (talk) 01:38, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments by Sarastro

This is an excellent article and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. I had never heard of this before, but French history of this period is not really my strong point. The prose is excellent and probably beyond my ability to improve! However, here are a few comments, questions and nit-picks.

• "…during which Charles VI of France was almost killed": Possibly a little strong. Maybe it's just me, but I imagined this involved injury in the fire, rather than his life being endangered but no actual harm coming to him.
• "The fire led to a loss of confidence in Charles' capacity to rule.": I'm not sure this is reflected in the main body.
• "all ambitious men": Could the opinion be attributed or rephrased slightly as it currently looks like editorial opinion?
• "the first Duke of Burgundy and "one of the most powerful princes in Europe"" This quote requires in-text attribution.
• "After an attempted assassination of Olivier de Clisson, Constable of France and leader of the Marmousets carried out by Pierre de Craon but orchestrated by John V, Duke of Brittany Charles became overly enraged and believed the attempt on Clisson's life represented an act of violence against both himself and the monarchy." This is a very long sentence; I would be inclined to split it into two: a sentence about the attempted assassination and a second on Charles' reaction.
• "Charles charged at his knights including his brother": Just to clarify, this was not fighting the forces of Brittany? He was attacking his own men?
• "Enguerand de Coucy brought the king to Notre Dame de Liesse…" Who is Enguerand and how did he become involved?
• "Jean Froissart writes that he was so sick that "far out the way no medicine could help him"" Just checking that this quote is not a typo: I'm not too sure what "far out the way" means here.
• "He appeared unable to recognize his wife Queen Isabeau, demanding her removal when she entered his chamber, though after his recovery, Charles made arrangements for her to retain guardianship of their children": Perhaps the chronology could be made clearer here. Was this recovery after his treatment by Harsigny, or later? And, to clarify, he did not recognise his wife after he recovered from the coma?
• "who left Paris despite fervent pleas to stay": Fervent seems a little dramatic here.
• "Women's fashions became excessive as Isabeau and her sister-in-law Valentina Visconti, Duchess of Orléans indulged in extravagant clothing": The phrasing seems a little odd here; as the previous sentence ends by saying the court turned to amusements for the king's health, the opening of the sentence jars a little as unconnected, although it obviously is once the rest of the sentence is read. Could this be tweaked?
• "Charles' uncles were content to allow the frivolities for "so long as the Queen and the Duc d'Orléans danced, they were not dangerous or even annoying."[14]": In text attribution?
• There are a few other examples of quotes that are not attributed in the text.
• "arrived at the event late and drunk and entered the hall carrying lit torches": I'm not sure about "and…and" here; I like the "late and drunk" though, so maybe replace "and entered" with "entering the hall carrying lit torches"?
• "Other accounts accused Louis, who was known to have practiced sorcery, of intentionally causing the fire": Whose accounts?
• "and chastened by the Maillotin revolt of the previous decade": Perhaps briefly explain what this was?
• "the court did penance at Notre Dame": Who would have decided this? Charles?
• This is probably not known, but what effect did this have on Charles? Who did he blame?
• Although Charles was not considered at fault, how did it affect his reputation?
• Duchesse de Berry or Duchess of Berry? She is called both in the article.
• The first paragraph of "Folkloric and Christian representations of wild men" seems disjointed. It discusses masquerades and then about where the Duchess of Berry was standing and he king's movements. Maybe there is a connection, but I'm missing it.
• I'm struggling a little with that section: it's interesting but I'm not too sure of the relevance to the article. Particularly the parts about ritual burning: the burning at the event was hardly ritual or deliberate in the sense given here. But that is just my opinion and I'm often wrong!
• I have not checked sources or performed spot checks.

I don't usually watch peer reviews, so if you have any questions or comments, please use my talk page. --Sarastro1 (talk) 00:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot - very helpful. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:44, 26 January 2012 (UTC)