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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Prison Break (season 2)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 02:05, 24 December 2008 [1].

Prison Break (season 2) edit

I have been working on the list for the past two days now, and believe it meets the FL criteria. Since there is no criteria for a season page for a television series, I modeled the page after 30 Rock (season 2), which is a FL. The only difference between the two pages is a "crew" section in the 30 Rock list, which I intentionally omitted. Crew sections provide no information that cannot be summarized in the episode list. I placed the production companies in the lead, and for anyone who wants to know about the show runners, executive producers etc., they can check the main Prison Break page. The episode summaries are arguably a bit short, however I believe that those who want to know further information can check the episode articles themselves. The summaries on the 30 Rock list are just as short, so I guess its not a large problem. Anyways, I look forward to the comments, Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 07:09, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from SRX

Comments

  • Dubbed the Fox River Eight, the group splits and members go their individual way, struggling to escape from the police while avoiding a secret group of multinationals called The Company, which wants them all dead. - this is going to need a full stop, at the moment it is a run on. How about Dubbed the Fox River Eight, the group splits and members go their separate ways. They then struggle to escape from the police while avoiding a secret group of multinationals called The Company, which wants them all dead.
  • Source that verifies the second and third paragraph?
    • Do they really need to be? I remember that on Barack Obama, a decision was made not to source the lead, as much of the information was sourced later. Was that a special case, and should we just use (ref name="__") and source the lead? - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work
      • Per Wikipedia:Lead section, the lead section does not need refs. The third paragraph is sourced within the body of the article, and plot sections, i.e. the second paragraph, do not need to be reffed. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 01:10, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of the eight characters who escape from Fox River State Penitentiary, five are series regulars and three recur throughout the season. - comma before and
  • Paul Adelstein plays Paul Kellerman, a Secret Service Agent who later allies himself with Michael and Lincoln in hopes of seeking revenge on the President and The Company. - link to this President, do you mean the U.S. Pres or the U.S. Vice Pres, or a different type of Pres?
  • William Fichtner is introduced as Alexander Mahone, a Special Agent in the FBI assigned to spearhead the task force assembled to bring in the fugitives. - link to FBI? Not necessary, but possibly spell out the FBI acronym.
  • Can general refs be made to source the table? I see no sourcing specifically verifying the table.--SRX 00:04, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Support - issues resolved to meet WP:WIAFL.--SRX 01:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

    • Comments:

    • "The season contained 22 episodes" -- current tense should be used; this implies it no longer consists of 22 episodes
    • "which wants them all dead." -- > "that wants them all dead."
    • "The second second saw the downgrading" repeated/missing word?
    • Dallas, Texas, but Pensacola, Florida
    • "Critical reviews of the season were mixed, however the addition of" -- Correct use of "however" in this sentence is to use a semi colon after "mixed", and a comma after "however"
    • WP:EGG: brother. No one will click on "brother", but they might click on "he was framed for murdering Terrence Steadman, the brother of the Vice President of the United States, Caroline Reynolds."
    • Same for "his girlfriend"
    • "written off the series" --> "written out of the series"
    • "20 of the 22 episodes where shot." --> "...were shot" (typo)
    • rewrite "and approximately $1.4 million went to the local economy per episode." because "Each episode" begins the sentence
    • "however the season finale received one of the lowest audiences" same punctuation problem as mentioned before
    • There is a lot of repetition of "the second season". To break this up, how about "season two", or simply "the season", since we know it's the second.
    • "T-Bag finds help for his cut-off hand" does that mean what I think it does?! :-O How about "severed" or "amputated"?
    • I'll take a closer look at the rest of the episode summaries later, but there's a striking contrast between the 4 or 5 lines used to summarise the first 13 episodes, and the 1 or 2 lines used for the latter part of the season.
    • You're using the DVD cover to identify the season, but it should be accompanied by some commentary. The article makes no mention of a DVD release. Perhaps you could include this information? Stuff such as date(s), region(s) or countries, special features, sound, aspect, etc. Take a look at Lost (season 3)#DVD release and Degrassi season 6#DVD release.
    • Was the season released in any other format? iTunes, XBox Marketplace, etc etc?

    Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 09:11, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • Thanks for the comments, and I have fixed most requests. I am still in the process of increasing all the summaries, however the increased ones are done. The DVD release dates were in the infobox, so I just added the region 1 date to the lead. Will you accept this as enough commentary? Apart from special features, nothing that I can add has any significance, and only mentioning spec. features is not enough to warrant another subheading, IMO. Are other formats, i.e. iTunes or XBox really notable? I'm willing to let it slide, it you are... Anyways, thanks for the helpful comments. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 13:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • A DVD table was added, better? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion
    Resolved comments from 97198

    Comments

    • Sara Tancredi, the previous prison doctor - "former" doctor, maybe?
    • blamed the writers for being "incredibly lazy" - the use of "blame" means that the writers are, pretty much, being held responsible for being lazy... which doesn't make much sense. Perhaps "accused the writers of being..."?
    • I don't really find the second reception sentence "contrasting" as is implied, because the reviewer is only commenting on the first episode of the season. Realistically, the opener could have been decent while the rest of the season could have been dreadful. Especially if you're just trying to sum up critical views on the season as a whole (which seems to be what you're doing), if you're only going to offer two reviews then they'd better be fairly broad.
    • Per WP:MOSNUM#Decimal points, the number of decimal places should be consistent when discussing similar figures. With a 10.24 million, the other ratings should be 9.40 and 10.50 million viewers.
    • The ratings section seems to be focused on American figures - the Prison Break#Television section has some good info on worldwide distribution and some ratings. (I remember adding some stuff to that Oceania section quite a while ago!)
    • "Zach Estrin" is misspelt (with the H) under DVD releases, but don't ask how I noticed that.

    Otherwise, looks good to me. And I enjoyed reading over those plot summaries again - the only image that remains in my mind from season 2 is poor Haywire jumping from that silo. —97198 (talk) 12:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Thanks for the review. I think I have addressed all concerns (although you probably already knew that). :) Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 14:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    With the decimal points, should I change the "8.5%" and the "$1.4"? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 14:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Support Everything looks good to me apart from that "eason" under reception! And to answer your question, the decimal point rule only applies with numbers in the same units - in this case the unit is viewers, so percentages, currencies, etc stay as they were. Well done! —97198 (talk) 00:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC) [reply]
    Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

    Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

    • Spell out FBI on its first appearance in the article.
    • "Prison Break revolves around two brothers;" I think the semicolon should be a colon.
    • "2005-2006" Should be have an en dash.
    • "As a results of the declining ratings during the season," "results"-->result.
    • "Sara is arrested for aiding the escape, however her father posts her bail, and orders her to attend daily Narcotics Anonymous meetings."-->Sara is arrested for aiding the escape; however, her father posts her bail, and orders her to attend daily Narcotics Anonymous meetings.
    • "information on which he discovers in Michael's hard drive" I think it should be "from which"
    • "both of them go to find Michael"
    • "Aldo tells Lincoln that he can exonerate him with the evidence he has gathered, while an agent from The Company is ordered to kill them." "while"-->and.
    • "Michael tries to outsmart a coyote to secure a getaway plane, however his plan backfires."-->Michael tries to outsmart a coyote to secure a getaway plane; however, his plan backfires.
    • "T-Bag is welcomed by Susan's young children, but he is forced"
    • "who they believe"-->whom they believe. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    All comments fixed, by either Cornucopia or me. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 01:14, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Resolved comments from Rambo's Revenge

    Oppose

    Other painful ref stuff to fix:

    • MoS says "Dates in article references should all have the same format."
    • Current refs 9 (Getting out was the easy part: Season 2 of Prison Break), 20 (Premieres, finales falter) and 21 (Prison Breaks Strong for FOX) should use a citation template. In fact there lots more 11, 18, have a look through these refs.
    • Is there a reason this doesn't use {{episode list}}?
      • Well, the original article never did, and we didn't see the reason to convert it. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 19:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Whilst probably not required I would advise this, as it would go a long way towards "6. Visual appeal" as it provides alternate colour line formatting for the table and things like that. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 00:55, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          Maybe we will change it in the future. Right now, the other three season are in this format too, so changing it would really mess up the "List of episodes" page. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 01:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          "List of episodes" pages are now advised against using transclusion per this recent FLC, also it shouldn't repeat the episode summaries. I would still srongly encourage a conversion to {{episode list}}. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 11:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:00, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    I am busy, so will review the rest of these changes tomorrow. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:54, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    More

    • Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Time of day says it should be 9:00 p.m. or 9:00 pm not 9:00 PM
    • "in hopes of seeking revenge" in the hope of?
    • "commended the premiere on matching the standard set by the first season, which delivered a "rocking ..." - it sounds you are describing the first season it matched, reword
      • Done. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 00:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Hasn't really solved it. It still sounds like the comments are related to the first season. I can't access the whole article (which probably should be noted) but try something along the line of:
          'Mike Duffy of the Detroit Free Press noted that the season premiere was "rocking good entertainment" due to its "motley crew of cellblock characters" and the "taut, ingenious storytelling of series creator Paul T. Scheuring and his staff." He also commended the episode for living up to the standard set by the first season.' Rambo's Revenge (talk) 00:55, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "changed from Chicago in the first season to Dallas in the second because the" - in the second season?
    • Many locations were need to represent various American towns, which Dallas provided" - needed?
    • Because of its A, B and C " which was considered to be a major component for the final decision" - which were and components?
    • Link "Inspector Javert-like"

    I think this should have had a peer review to fix all the prose issues. Also from my previous comments

    • Reference dates still not consistent. Some use "YYYY-MM-DD", while others use "Month DD, YYYY"
    • Also many still not using template: 1, 3, 5, 19, 21, 29, 30 (sorry you must hate me :p)
      • Is there a problem with the refs not using the template? I have seen many articles that do not use it, (including FAs and FLs), and if the end result is the same, why bother? Sorry if I'm coming across as snippy, I'm not trying to. :) Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 00:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • No actually, just habit. I was advised to do this myself once and never actually questioned why. I have just checked and it is not a requirement, so I will not oppose on these grounds. I would still recommend it as it makes future maintenance easier, but it is up to editor preference. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 00:55, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Rambo's Revenge (talk) 11:59, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

          • For future reference, Wikipedia:Citation templates says: "The use of Citation templates is not required by WP:CITE and is neither encouraged nor discouraged by any other Wikipedia citation guidelines." Citation templates have advantages and disadvantages; they are easy to use and (as Rambo said) to maintain; however, they can clutter up the text in edit mode and slow down page load times. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:14, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • Thanks for the comment. :) Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 01:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • That said, an article should follow one format only. Either all refs should use the templates, or none should be templated. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 08:59, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                • Oh, well I am fine with different formats, is there somewhere that says they must be the same? If not, I don't really see the point in putting so much time and effort into something that does not change the end result at all. Can we just let it be? :S Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 09:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                  • I have a feeling it's at WP:FOOT. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:19, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                    • I couldn't find anything there, so either it's not there or I'm blind.;) Right now, the references are fine, and I really don't understand what difference the formats make. The end results are exactly the same, and the different formats are creating no problems. Can we please just let it be? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 07:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                      • Here it is, from WP:CITE: "Citations are usually presented within articles using one of the methods described below in the How to present citations section of this guideline. Each article should use the same method throughout—if an article already has some citations, an editor should adopt the method already in use or seek consensus before changing it." Dabomb87 (talk) 01:34, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Episode summaries

    • "Eight hours after the escape" - Eight hours after escaping Fox River
    • Whilst I've seen "LJ", "L.J." and "L. J." all used in media, you space his initials in the cast section, so the summaries should be consistent with that.
      • I believe NuclearWarfare fixed this. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 01:09, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Quite right. Also for future reference this seems to suggest that it is "LJ"
    • Link Warden Pope to Henry Pope in the character list as this is his first mention on this page.
    • "face tribunal for" - face tribunal hearings?
    • "swallows several pills from his pen" thats alright for people who watch the show, think about WP:PCR, maybe pills that are concealed in his pen.
    • Link "Geary" to Roy Geary.
    • Fibonacci - who?
    • Link "Tweener" to David "Tweener" Apolskis
    • link subdivision (but not to the disambig page)
    • Summary 6 says "D.B. Cooper"'s money, then summary 7 says "Westmoreland's money" - be consistent

    Please copyedit these summaries some more, as I have only looked through the first few. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    All fixed; beginning copy edit after episode 8. NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 22:03, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Reply to comments by Rambo's Revenge. All of your comments have now been addressed, except for the episode table issue. Since this is a big task (if I do change the table, then all the season tables will need to be changed and the "List of" page; that's eight tables in total), I ask that you allow us to make these changes later, preferable after the FLC. Thoughts? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:17, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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