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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of emperors of the Song Dynasty/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 20:21, 10 October 2009 [1].

List of emperors of the Song Dynasty

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Nominator(s): Pericles of AthensTalk 16:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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Well, if you guys liked List of emperors of the Han Dynasty (a Featured List), you should find no faults or problems with this one. Enjoy.Pericles of AthensTalk 16:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support I see no problems with this list. One tiny detail, though, there is a part in the article where it says "it planted the seed for authoritorianism in later dynasties". I find that claim quite interesting, as the Mongol and Manchu dynasties did not inherit Song institutions, and it would be extremely hard to call the Ming "authoritorian".Teeninvestor (talk) 19:49, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I wonder what protocols about treating the emperor with deference (i.e. not sitting together at same meeting but standing erect or only sending messages, never seeing emperor, etc.) were inherited by the Yuan, Ming, or Qing, but I'll give Mote the benefit of the doubt until I find something completely contradictory.--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:53, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the support, guys! I'll talk to someone who manages the FLCs and see if this can't be done.--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:53, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I can help you move the article.—Chris!c/t 23:08, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done—Chris!c/t 23:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! That was quick! Excellent.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • The images need alt text per WP:ALT. You probably have not done this before, so you might want to consult Eubulides (talk · contribs) on how to write it.
  • What exactly does "too tedious" mean in "too tedious; thus, not used when referring to this sovereign"?
  • Ref 7 refers to Rossabi 1988, but I could not find such a ref in the bibliography. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:38, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah! I just added the full Rossabi reference, forgot to do that. I'll add Alt Text as well; I've done it before for Ancient Egyptian literature; once again, just forgot to add it.--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have added alt text to the four images found in the article. I hope you find the text sufficient. I believe Wilkinson (1998) touches on why the posthumous names are too tedious to use in regards to Song rulers; let me pull that up and see what I can find.--Pericles of AthensTalk 00:12, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I believe I have fully answered that question about posthumous titles being tedious by expanding the titles and names section of the article using Wilkinson's Chinese History: A Manual (1998).--Pericles of AthensTalk 00:35, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the tables could be made sortable without too much trouble if you use a hidden sortkey with {{sort}}.
  • In the Han emperor list, you italicize "r", but you don't here. Can we make that consistent? Dabomb87 (talk) 18:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure! I can do that. I believe r is italicized because it is for Latin regnum, not the English "reign". A nice throwback to the Romans there. Heh.--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:33, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The sort thing sounds spiffy, but could you provide me with an example of another article that does this? The template explains a little but I want to see an actual example of this in a table already found in a Wiki article. That would make things a lot easier to figure out! Thanks.--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
See IWGP Tag Team Championship as an example. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:24, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Why isn't the last sentence in the last paragraph of Background referenced?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 06:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. There is an image of each of the Emperors. Could u add another column and add for each Emperor an image?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 06:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. The lead should be three paragraphs because of the length of the list. Or have paragraph expanded.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 06:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • 1) Done! Thanks for pointing that out; I simply forgot to add a Morris Rossabi (1988) citation there while writing that section. Cheers.--Pericles of AthensTalk 08:09, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • 2) I'm afraid I can't do that, as it would jeopardize this candidacy over the issue of non-sourced material. I selectively cherry-picked the images of emperors out of many which to this day lack an essential source. And to anyone who might point out that some do have a quote-un-quote "source," I would simply say no, "Chinese Wikipedia" or "Russian Wikipedia" is not a reliable source! Lol. I hope you understand. Maybe one day when every single last image is sourced properly, then the images can be added to the table as such. But right now that is simply out of the question and we'll have to make do with what we have (—what we have that is sourced, that is).--Pericles of AthensTalk 08:09, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but them being in the public domain is not the issue; the issue is the source of where they came from when the person uploaded the pictures. I hate to be a stiffler here, but there is no proof that these images are in the public domain until a source is provided proving that this is so. It's not that I doubt that these paintings are genuine; it's just a basic requirement that an image should be sourced.--Pericles of AthensTalk 16:04, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're correct. There are many sources of such images like http://www.chinapage.com/emperor.html . In any case it's not a requirement that you provide an image of each Emperor. Just add a commons category link ( {{commonscat}} ) to the portraits. The list is of great quality and I support its nomination.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 16:17, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure! I'll at least add the link. If I can find a proper source for each image on the web, then I'll be glad to add the images to the table and change the lead image to something else. Cheers and thanks for your support!--Pericles of AthensTalk 16:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • 3) Really? I thought that the length of the lead should match the amount of material covered in the body paragraphs, i.e. the prose. But since you insist, I have reorganized things and added three new sentences so that three paragraphs are now in place as you request. Regards.--Pericles of AthensTalk 08:09, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I found no problems in this list. Ruslik_Zero 12:31, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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