Comment. This seems an unnecessary WP:CFORK of Wario (series). Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree with you. Seventeen games and all their release information is far too much for one series article to hold -- there's a difference between what we have here and List of Star Fox titles, which doesn't meet the ten-item list threshold. The Wario (series) article is underdeveloped, and as such, is pretty much a bad series of list articles; the correct sort of article it should be is seen in a series article such as Final Fantasy, which talks about reception and development more than just a simple list. -- Nomader (Talk) 22:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I can concur with that and I suspected that it might be the case, hence my lack of opposition. One thing (although I recognise this is way outside the scope of this FLC): I think it would be nice if the forked information was removed from the series page and that would also reduce the appearance of information being forked. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 00:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- It's just fine -- I'll try to remove it within the next day. -- Nomader (Talk) 04:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. -- Nomader (Talk) 04:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Lead
- "The games have been developed by a variety of developers," any chance this can be reworded to reduce repetition of developed / developers.
- I changed "developers" to "companies". I think it should work better.
- "The Wario series" shouldn't Wario be italicised like the other occurances.
- I believe you meant "should", not shouldn't -- either way, I added italics per your comment.
- "in the vein of other Wario platform games" I just don't like the language, but it is backed up by the ref. How about "like the previous Wario platform games." or something of that nature.
- I corrected the language per your suggestion.
- "The WarioWare games are a hybrid of minigame compilations and party games which require the player to perform a series of minigames in a row at a quickening pace." don't like the repetition of "minigame" and 4 appearances of "game" in one sentence. Having not played them is the party games bit really necessary, because if we could drop that it would make any rewording much easier. Also consider rewording it and the following sentence because the repetition of pace seems redundent and I only think it needs mentioning once. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 00:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The games really are totally unique -- it was the best line I could think of at the time. I changed the language to read "... games are minigame compilations where the player is required to perform a series of short activities in a row at a quickening pace." I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with activities, but I think it sounds better.
- I did my best to respond to your suggestions -- see if the re-wording works better. -- Nomader (Talk) 04:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- List
I'm disappointed and now oppose. I was working from the bottom up, and stopped because I found so many errors. Check all the references again. I found many that don't cite what they claim and that are used in the wrong place leading me to suspect that you cut-and-paste a lot of the table. Here are my examples from WarioWare: Smooth Moves down:
- WarioWare: Smooth Moves. Original release dates:[33] EU March 11, 2005 The Wii wasn't even out then, ref says "Jan 12, 2007"
- WarioWare: Smooth Moves. Developed by Intelligent Systems.[30] - ref 30 has nothing to do with SmoothMoves
- WarioWare: Snapped!. Original release dates:[35]April 5, 2009 ref says December 24, 2008
- WarioWare D.I.Y. Original release dates:[38] JP April 24, 2009 ref says "04/29/09" not the 24th.
- It is also called Asobu Made in Ore on WiiWare according to [6]
- Paper Airplane Chase. One microgame from WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$! with expanded modes and released for the DSiWare download service.[39] ref 39 doesn't mention the name of the microgame. Need ref that it is "Mega Microgame$!" as you claim.
- Mario & Wario. System release: 1993 – Game Boy[39], ref 39 doesn't mention it. Is that meant to be ref 40. Also wasn't it released on the SNES not gameboy?
I suspect to see these changes and others because I'm pretty sure they'll be similar mistakes in them too. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 11:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Dear me, that's horrible... I'll check the references today and I'll make a list of all the changes I've made below. -- Nomader (Talk) 15:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref checking per problems brought up by User: Rambo's Revenge
From what I can see with the ones you listed, it seems I entered in some of the release dates from the wrong regions. It's what I get for editing at the wee-hours of day. I'm just going to start from the top and work my way down to the ones you've listed. I'm embarrassed that I have to do this, but when that many mistakes are brought up the whole needs checking.
- Ref 7: The release dates and release info correctly match. Contains the information used in the note -- removed incorrectly wikilinked date.
- Ref 8: The biography referenced only mentions that Wario appeared in the game, not that he appeared as the antagonist. The note has been so changed.
- Ref 9: The release dates and release info correctly match. Contains the information used in the note -- removed incorrectly wikilinked date.
- Ref 1: The review notes the end of the Mario Land series and the beginning of the Wario Land series. Also notes the developer, citation correct.
- Ref 10: The review holds the information that is used in the notes.
- Ref 11: The article cited contains the information used in the note. Changed "featured" to "features".
- Ref 12: The release dates and release info correctly match.
- Ref 13: The game was released in Japan in 1998: the release information has been changed to match.
- Ref 14: Review referenced contains note about Super Game Boy, citation correct.
- Ref 15: The release dates and release info correctly match.
- Ref 16: Review of the game contains a note about the nonlinear gameplay, citation correct.
- Ref 17: Received a 404 when I tried to press the link -- the link was wrong. I corrected the link in the ref, and confirmed that the release dates and release info correctly match.
I have to go for now -- but when I get back later tonight, I'll finish the above list. -- Nomader (Talk) 16:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref 2: The review cited notes Wario's ability to die, citation correct.
- Ref 18: The release dates and release info correctly match.
- Ref 19: I read through the review again, and I noted that I had mistaken "first GameCube game" as a connection with "first console game" -- I kept the reference, but changed the reference to talk about the camera perspective.
- Ref 20: The release dates and release info correctly match.
- Ref 21: The review notes the fusion between puzzle and platform game, citation correct.
- Ref 22: The release dates and release info correctly match. Developer info is correct.
- Ref 23: Japanese title matches up correctly to the right game.
- Ref 3: The review notes the Wii remote controls used in the notes, citation correct.
- Ref 24: Mistook "Mar" for "May" on the release info page. Changed to March on the release dates, system release checks out. Correct Japanese title.
- Ref 25: GameCube game system release checks out, added it as a ref in the notes section.
- Ref 26: The reference was correct, but the Japanese language title (not its translation) was incorrect. I corrected it according to the reference.
- Ref 27: Added this ref in, as the original review didn't talk about the games as a series. This review notes that it is the successor to the original release, checks out. Added it in as a ref for the existence of the GameCube game.
- Ref 5: Review notes the presentation, citation correct.
- Ref 28: The ref's title wasn't correct -- I went ahead and fixed it. Changed release information to match Japanese release. Ref correctly names Japanese translated title.
- Ref 29: Japanese site lists correct title, citation correct.
- Ref 30: Review notes the tilt sensor, citation correct.
- Ref 31: Ref title was incorrect, release dates and console release info checks out. Japanese translated title correct.
- Ref 32: Japanese site lists correct title, citation correct.
- Ref 33: Review talks about use of the touch screen, citation correct.
- Ref 34: Citation title was incorrect, changed to the title of the page. European release date was incorrect, changed to what's seen on the release info page (January 12, 2007). Japanese translated title correct.
- Ref 35: Japanese site lists correct title, citation correct.
- Replaced Ref 31 with Ref 34 for developer information.
- Ref 4: Review notes the different Wiimote positions, citation correct.
- Ref 36: Japanese release date was incorrect, changed to what's seen on the release info page (December 24, 2008). System release info correct, Japanese translated title correct, developer info correct.
- Ref 37: Japanese site lists correct title, citation correct.
- Ref 38: Review talks about controlling the game with the camera, citation correct.
- Ref 39: Japanese release info incorrect, changed release information to what's seen on the citation. Removed note about "do it yourself", no reliable sources to back it up. Development information correct, console release info correct.
- Ref 6: Correctly cites console release information for WiiWare title, added Japanese title to notes per the source. Ref checks out for basic info about the game.
- Ref 40: Release date information checks out. I removed from the citation the note about it being from WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$! -- noted instead that it was just "a microgame", which checks out in the source. Developer and console release info check out.
- Ref 41: Corrected console release information to have correct citation and correct console. All other information from the citation checks out.
- Ref 42: Release dates check out, NES console release data checks out.
- Ref 43: SNES release data checks out.
- Ref 44: Review talks about controlling Toad, Wario as the antagonist, and the puzzle gameplay, citation correct.
- Ref 45: Corrected NA release date (it listed 2004 instead of 1994). Release and development information correct -- added Ref 46 to cover information about the title.
- Ref 46: Added to expand on info for Wario Blast.
- That should be all of them, though I think I missed a few towards the beginning. I'll go back and cover them. See if the list is satisfactory now, and thanks for pointing out your concerns... teaches me to not edit at three in the morning. -- Nomader (Talk) 22:13, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, I added two more refs from the beginning -- this is every ref in the entire article. Once you're done reviewing the refs, I'll go ahead and put them in a collapsible table. Thanks for noticing my error. -- Nomader (Talk) 02:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, well the changes you've documented above are encouraging, and seem to be meticulous. I've checked a sample of about 5 games that I hadn't checked before and found no errors. That and the changes made per my comments above allow be to assume that the referencing issue has now been sorted. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:24, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I appreciate it. -- Nomader (Talk) 21:02, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Further comment
What is the criteria of inclusion for this list of games? Because it mentions "Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins" (his first appearance yes) but he's not playable and I wouldn't call it a Wario game. Similarly if it is as playable characters Mario Karts etc. allow you to play as Wario. It might be worth removing that first entry and only mentioning it in the lead as his appearance unless you can provide a reason for it to stay. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:24, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I originally felt it was notable based on the idea that it was Wario's first appearance, but it was clearly a Mario game outside the Wario series. I removed Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins and worked it into the lead per your suggestion. -- Nomader (Talk) 21:02, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, I think that makes sense. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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