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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Bleach episodes (season 10)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:50, 6 October 2009 [1].

List of Bleach episodes (season 10) edit

Nominator(s): Tintor2 (talk) 16:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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I am nominating this for featured list as part of the feature topic Wikipedia:Featured topics/Seasons of Bleach which is needing season 10 and season 11 to be FL. The list has been copyedited and its issues have addressed in the peer review. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 16:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment why is it called "list of bleach episodes" and not just "Bleach (season 10)" ?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 16:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
WP: Anime uses "list of" for episodes list per Template:Japanese episode list#Sublists.Tintor2 (talk) 16:56, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Shouldn't the theme songs be in Nihongo3 template with the term "lit." in it somewhere? DragonZero (talk) 19:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done.Tintor2 (talk) 19:36, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The singer does not need Nihongo I'm pretty sure. Hitohira no Hanabira needs Nihongo. DragonZero (talk) 23:04, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done.Tintor2 (talk) 01:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment 2. DragonZero (talk) 02:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The nineteen-episode season is based on Tite Kubo's Bleach manga series, and adaptation from the 32nd through 36th volumes", I'm not sure what other editors would say but this could be called original research.
Done.Tintor2 (talk) 02:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Episode 191, "Tesla threatens to destroy the source of her power". Maybe something to explain her power?
Done (though it is never specified what would Orihime do in such situation).Tintor2 (talk) 02:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Episode 205. "The soccer game officially kicks off," sounds kind of funny to me.
Done.Tintor2 (talk) 02:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, everything seems great to me and I support this, though I'm just a newbie editor. DragonZero (talk) 02:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Arsonal (talk)
Comment A few things.
  • Use the trans_title parameter for references whose titles don't use Roman characters.
Done (though there are some terms I'm pretty sure).
  • I'm pretty sure "Sky Chord" is included in the Kanji title of the song.
Done.
  • Is there a need to romanize the Kanji for "Arrancar vs. Shinigami arc"?
Done.
  • Lead: "…from Season 9 centered…" Lower case "s".
Done.

Arsonal (talk) 06:55, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support Spot checks on episode summaries did not reveal any errors. Arsonal (talk) 22:31, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "Episodes 204 and 205 bring back the Kasumiōji Soul Reapers from season 9 centered on soccer." This sentence is unclear. What is centered on soccer?
  • "When Ichigo asks why he knows Nel" Why does he know, or how does he know? The second sounds more logical, but I'm not the expert.

Overall, I think the summaries could use a little more copy-editing, which I'm working on. More comments later. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:49, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done.Tintor2 (talk) 12:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "after learning about the ability from bacteria he implanted in Uryū" Which ability? The ability to destroy his organs, or the ability to replace them with dummies?
  • "piercing through his hand and heart for what he discerns as centuries before he dies" Not sure what "centuries" means here? Did he think that he was pierced for a time period of a century?
  • "This leads to an outburst between Lurichiyo and Kenryu, and the latter intends to end his life to make Lurichiyo "happy"." Does he actually say he will end his life or is he just thinking about this?
  • "The action culminates in Ikkaku Madarame's joining in the game, while actually sparring with Ichigo instead" This phrase doesn't make sense. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:49, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he made a scene when he was trying to load his things into his new room" "he ... he ... his", very ambiguous. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Karakura Town during the previous arc" Link for "previous arc"? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:32, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you tell me where is that? I don't find it.Tintor2 (talk) 23:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good, though I didn't evaluate the foreign-lanuage ones for reliability. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Issues raised by others were addressed; list is consistent with previous seasons' list.--Remurmur (talk) 00:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Goodraise 22:16, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Goodraise (talk · contribs)
  • The romaji titles need to be title-cased.
  • Found and fixed the only one I found.Tintor2 (talk) 19:40, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most of them still need to be title-cased. As an example: The first title should be "Weko Mundo Hen, Saikai!" Goodraise 20:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • So everything needs to be with capitals?Tintor2 (talk) 13:35, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The fair-use rational of the article's only image is not convincing.
  • No, not fixed. Here is an example of an acceptable FUR. Goodraise 20:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done (I'm not pretty sure if the romaji no has to use capitals).Tintor2 (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Goodraise 18:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support Meets criteria 2 through 6. (No comment on prose quality.) Sources look good and the FUR of the article's only image is adequate. Goodraise 22:16, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Diaa
  • That should be something to discuss at WT:Anime (although I think that was already discussed).Tintor2 (talk) 20:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The kanji is from the TV Tokyo sites shown in the article. The romaji is derivative.Tintor2 (talk) 20:54, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The season first aired from October 14, 2008 though April 7, 2009 on TV Tokyo in Japan." though?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The first DVD compilation was released on May 27, 2009, and as of August 26, 2009, four DVDs have been published." you mean four DVD compilations or four compilations. Cause there have been probably more than four DVDs published.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "known as the Arrancar vs. Shinigami arc" known by who?? You mean released on DVD as .... Cause that's what the ref gives.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead is very misleading cause as I understand it there are no seasons in Japanese Anime...or are there?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The previews say it is another season.Tintor2 (talk) 20:54, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Aniplex is selling the season in four-episode DVD compilations" What will happen to the last 3 episodes?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The release date of every DVD should be mentioned and if there will be a 5th DVD.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 21:24, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is mentioned in the main list List of Bleach episodes.Tintor2 (talk) 21:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • This info should also be in this list since it is relevant to this season. You should also explain in the lead the change to the title "The Past" in the upcoming Volume sets. --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 22:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no official English translation for the episodes' names (and it seems Viz doesn't publishes the names from the episodes). Leaving only the kanji and the romaji would make this article confusing. The translation shown is the most exact derivation that could be made from the kanji.Tintor2 (talk) 21:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • You could use TV.com eventhough this is seen as Season 9.
  • I though that TV.com wasn't reliable since it is user-edited.Tintor2 (talk) 22:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • TV.com has a totally different Seasons division. Is this because it's based on the US release or what exactly?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 22:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • This season has yet to be released in North America. Still, the English division seems to be identical to the Japanese ones as you can see in the first seasons lists.Tintor2 (talk) 22:32, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wouldn't that be overdetailed?Tintor2 (talk) 22:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think so. The anime is different from the manga and the various screen writers should be indicated.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 22:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you mean all the script, storyboard staff seen here?Tintor2 (talk) 23:04, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you have info about which episodes are written by which member of the staff then this should be in the article.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The TV Tokyo site does not show that.Tintor2 (talk) 23:30, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes either repeat it or remove it from the other list and add it here. This is directly related to this list. I don't see why it's more related to the other one.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:00, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please look for the following info about the seasons to expand the list:--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 00:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Awards received for episodes in this season
  2. Reviews of episodes
  3. DVD sales
  4. production notes
  5. Viewers numbers, dominant age...
All that information is cover in Bleach and it should be discussed in WT:Anime not here in order to change the manual of style for anime episode lists so I don't think I should do that now.Tintor2 (talk) 01:40, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
None of that information is required for an anime episode season list, and most is not even remotely available. Nor is it called for by the relevant MoS. Anime episode lists are not the same as television episode lists, only vaguely similar. The DVD section recommended above is also unnecessary and should be removed. The releases can and should be covered in prose in the lead rather than the small tables, which it already is. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 01:55, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I concur, the information is not readily available, and lacking it is not a failure of the article. Dandy Sephy (talk) 01:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Any information related to the season should be covered in a season list. If you don't like the DVD table then add the info in the lead. Try to find out why the change of title happened or why they restarted the Volume numbers. If the info isn't available then this wouldn't result in the failure of the list, as it is comprehensive as far as it can be. Now please comprehensively cover the DVD releases in the lead. The absense of it is a failure of comprehensiveness.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 08:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The DVD is already covered in the lead in the second paragraph. Excessive detail is not necessary nor is it a failure of comprehensiveness. The title didn't "change" - Bleach, like many long running anime series has story arcs that the set of episodes covers. In Bleach's case, they released the DVDs with the subtitles and the restart volume numbers, versus having them be volumes 52-56 (which makes total marketing sense). All of the available information that is available is there. Again, please do not compare an anime episode list to a television episode list. These lists are split purely because of size reasons (250+ episodes just can not be covered in one list) and not because there are tons of seasonal information available for any season. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support good list.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:26, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment, my only question is which source confirms that these are the episodes of season 10? There seems to be some question about the seasonal divisions being brought up on the main episode list talk page about possible confusion on this? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:14, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's something that recently appeared; It seems the past episodes will have to be divided in another season, but it will be better to wait since it is still unknown what will happen to the last two episodes from this list since they are not from The Past.Tintor2 (talk) 13:50, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've thought about this on and off since replying to that discussion this morning. My view, is that we've been lucky with publishers recently, they've made it easy for us by breaking their releases into handy arcs. Being official arcs, we were able to use them to determine the seasons - especially as they correspond with changes to the theme songs. Which leads to my next point, IIRC the "past" episodes use the same theme song as te rest of the arc correct? And as Tintor2 says, the final two eps of the season as it stands now, are canonically placed after the eps before the "past" eps. Or in other words, the "past" eps (I'm assuming something has been lost in the translation for the name here) aired partway through a story arc. The "traditional" way to determine seasons with anime was from theme song - we still do this now before the dvd releases are announced.
Therefore, my suggestion is that as the relevant dvds won't be out before this FLC closes, we aren't in a position to have reliable sources contradicting the current list. If the list passes, and we find the episodes need moving, we can simply move them - the list won't degrade in quality, and if they are moved to another season, then that part of the list won't need copyediting etc. Given that the list is "Season 10" and not "Arrancar vs Shinigami", theres no reason to exclude the "past" eps based on what we know now. If the theme songs are indeed the same for example, we can still list two arcs in the same article as they are technically the same season - we just note that 6-8eps were released as a different title. Does this make sense? Essentially we keep the list as it is until the episodes in question are released - it won't affect the article quality and shouldn't affect the pass criteria as I understand them. Dandy Sephy (talk) 17:13, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The problem I'm seeing though is that nothing in any source seems to refer to any of the arcs/theme changes as seasons? Or are the English releases using "season" for its sets? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 18:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Viz releases (that are licensed and released by Manga Ent in the uk) follow the japanese pattern, but labelled as "season 1" etc. Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The point is, in my opinion, how do you determine where a season starts and where it ends? Do you divide by theme song or do you follow the DVD releases? Because if you use the first method then the list should remain as it is, but if you follow the DVDs then the "Past Arc" should be a season on its own and the next season should start at Episode 213.--Geodefender (talk) 19:31, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Read above. We can't split it yet since it is unknown what will happend with the two last episodes from the list. By the way, this has to be discussed in Talk:List of Bleach episodes, not here.Tintor2 (talk) 20:50, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since Collectonian asked "how can we confirm that these are the episodes of season 10?" it seemed appropriate to bring it up here. The issue seems to revolve around episodes 213 and 214, but the question is: why were they placed in the 10th season in the first place? Isn't the list supposed to follow the DVDs divisions like for every previous split? -- Geodefender (talk) 23:49, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion originally started at Talk:List of Bleach episodes, so please comment there.Tintor2 (talk) 23:54, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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