Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Ballon d'Or

< Wikipedia:Featured list candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 05:16, 4 January 2009 [1].

Ballon d'Or edit

The list has gone through a major revamping and I now believe it meets all the criteria necessary to become featured. Thanks in advance for your comments. NapHit (talk) 19:19, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Jameboy
  • "The "Ballon d'Or", often referred to as the European Footballer of the Year"... isn't the Ballon d'Or the trophy and the European Footballer of the Year the recipient? Should it be changed to the European Footballer of the Year award?
  • Footnote A should have a comma after "Despite being born in Argentina"
  • In the "by player" section, I don't see the point of regurgitating all the players who have won it just once. Can we just mention that it has been won once "by 34 players" (if my count-up is correct)?
  • "over the previous year" - can we clarify whether this is calendar year or football season? I assume the former, but it should be clarified due to many people using "year" and "season" interchangeably. Also I think "during" sounds better than "over".
  • "players at European clubs; meaning" comma not semi-colon (or change second half to "this meant that")
  • "This changed in 1995 when there was a change" - repetitive phrasing
  • "Germany has produced the most winners" - German players or players from German clubs?

Cheers. --Jameboy (talk) 00:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments I have addressed them all. NapHit (talk) 17:09, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My comments resolved. Support. Jameboy (talk) 20:38, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from Toon05 Support

 Done Good job on the article. One think I am wondering about is why the most recent winner of the award (Cristiano Ronaldo, as you undoubtedly know) isn't mentioned in the text, only in the table. It would seem prudent to include the information in the text, as it would undoubtedly be one of the most sought-after pieces of information to readers - they currently need to scroll down to the bottom of the table, or figure out that the table is, in fact sortable. Best (and Merry Christmas), – Toon(talk) 00:37, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be tempted to disagree there on grounds of recentism: we don't want to be constantly updating the leads of articles or lists to mention the most recent event related to the subject. Ballon d'Or 2008 has all the info on this year's award. --Jameboy (talk) 01:01, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well the article is updated at least every year due to the nature of the award, the list of winners needs to be updated, so really WP:RECENTISM isn't an issue. It makes sense to have the reigning European Footballer of the Year mentioned in the text. – Toon(talk) 14:45, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
added reference to cristiano ronaldo in lead. NapHit (talk) 17:09, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008

Comments - Found a few issues with it, in addition to the ones above. Here's a list of them.

  • France Football is a magazine, so it should be in italics.
  • "with 96 journalists from around the world choosing..." This is a "noun-plus-ing" structure and should be adjusted. Perhaps try a semi-colon and "96 journalists from around the world chose..."
  • Replace the comma after "Three men have won the award three times" with a semi-colon.
  • "Platini won all of his awards in a row from 1983 to 1985, and is the only player to acheive this feat." I don't believe this is specific enough; of course he's the only person to win three in a row from 1983 to 1985. What's important is that he's the only player to do it, period.
  • Another noun-plus-ing: "with five players winning seven awards between them."
  • Next sentence: "with seven players winning eight awards whilst (change to while) playing for the club."
  • The Alfredo Di Stefano photo doesn't have source and date of publication, both of which are needed to prove its public domain status.
  • Reference 7 (Juve legend Sivori dies) is lacking a publisher.
  • The Sports Illustrated references should be handled in a similar manner to the ones from The Independent. One SI ref is from Reuters, and the other is from the AP. Giants2008 (17-14) 03:26, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the comments Giants they have all been addressed. NapHit (talk) 17:09, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I took care of the one which was missed. – Toon(talk) 19:57, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support - After my comments, and those of the other reviewers, were addressed, I think this meets FL standards. Giants2008 (17-14) 17:50, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:11, 27 December 2008 (UTC) [reply]
Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

  • Only image captions that are complete sentences need full stops (periods) at the end.
  • "Originally journalists could only vote for European players at European clubs" Comma after "Originally".
  • "meaning that players like Diego Maradona and Pelé were ineligible for the award" Make a footnote that notes which clubs and countries these players play for and are from, respectively.
    • You haven't addressed this comment. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:47, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's because I feel it is unnecessary, they are former players and the reader can easily find out their clubs and countries by clicking on the relevant link, to add a footnote would be overkill in my opinion. NapHit (talk) 19:55, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1995" Comma after this phrase.
  • "The rules were changed again in 2007 with players of every nationality and from any club around the world eligible for the award."-->The rules were changed again in 2007 so that players of any nationality and from any club around the world could be eligible for the award.
  • "European based"-->Europe-based.
  • "Three men have won the award three times" Add each to the end of this phrase.
  • "Platini is the only player to win the award three times in a row"-->Platini is the only player to have won the award three times in a row
  • "German players have won the Ballon d'Or the most, five players have won seven awards between them." Make the comma a semicolon.
  • "Italian club Juventus has had the most winners, with seven players winning eight awards while playing for the club." Another one of those noun + -ing phrases, try: "Italian club Juventus has had the most winners; seven players have won eight awards while playing for the club. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:30, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers for the comments I have addressed them all. NapHit (talk) 19:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:11, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A quick look at their article and you'll see hy it's a reliable source, they have a famous award for sports people and are a famous sports organisation. NapHit (talk) 19:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Images look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:11, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

replced with image of Kevin Keegan, no idea who "personnel" are. NapHit (talk) 19:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24
  • "presented each year" don't need the "each year" part as reader already know the award is awarded annually.
  • I think the column, "Country", should be renamed "Nationality" or "Citizenship".
done NapHit (talk) 20:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the "By (noun)" sections are ridiculous. Why do you need to have those when the sorting function can easily determine which country, player, or club had the most award winners?
They present the information easily for the reader, the sorting could still cause confusion, with this there is none. NapHit (talk) 20:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c]

  • "..., meaning that players like Diego Maradona and Pelé were ineligible for the award." Why do you need to point out name?
  • "Three men..." Does it say that the award can only be awarded to men, and not women?
I don't think that needs to be made explicit, it is pretty obvious. NapHit (talk) 20:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But do you have a reference that only men are allowed to win the award? The word "obvious" relates to WP:Original research. -- signed by SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 (spell my name backwards) at 02:58, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ronaldo became the first Brazilian to win the award in 1997, after non-Europeans were made eligible." Why does this also need to be pointed out?
  • What are the years wikilinked to? Tell the readers that by note or by key.
The years are wikilinked to the relevant year of the award, a note is not needed for that it's just overkill. NapHit (talk) 20:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know that somewhere on WP:MOS, it says not to pipelink years (ie. 1982) That is why you need to tell the readers first about what the years wikilink to. -- signed by SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 (spell my name backwards) at 02:58, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what it says. The MOS is rather obsolete on this detail; the latest consensus (i.e. Date Linking RfC) suggests that when articles are piped through single-year links, it is better to be explicit about where the links go so as to not confuse the reader. Most of the basketball and baseball lists use this method, see List of Washington Wizards head coaches as an example. Also, all the years should be linked because the tables are sortable. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:59, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

-- signed by SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 (spell my name backwards) at 07:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

With regard to the section about Maradona and Pele, I think it's important to highlight that the two players who are almost universally regarded as the best footballers of all time were ineligible - it is not a minor detail IMHO. We could rustle up a large amount of sources to demonstrate this if required. Best, – Toon(talk) 16:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've addressed all your comments. NapHit (talk) 20:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toon05 stated, "I think it's important to highlight that the two players who are almost universally regarded as the best footballers of all time were ineligible" This is called original research. According to WP:Original research, it is not allowed. I still believe that pointing out players have no use. For example, why do you need to point out the first Brazilian, but not the first Czech? -- signed by SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 (spell my name backwards) at 02:58, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in the bot processing the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{FLC}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/Ballon_d%27Or&oldid=1141921886"