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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/William Hillcourt

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 00:58, 26 February 2008.

William Hillcourt edit

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Self-nominator, a major contributor. William Hillcourt was a Danish-American who was a major influence on Scouting in America and the world. He was known as "Scoutmaster to the World". We've worked on this article a lot lately and feel it's ready for a FAC review. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose The article is well-referenced and reasonably well-written, but I feel is lacking information. As it stands now, the article only describes Hillcourt's life. In the lead (which should be expanded to include a fewe more important details about his life and influences), it says that he was influential, but the article doesn't explain why. All that is does is offer a laundry list of his achievements. Why is he so important to the scouting movement? Is his influence still felt today? The article is also choppy with many short paragraphs. It would read better if the paragraphs are consolidated. I think you should look at the featured Robert Baden-Powell article for inspiration. Instead of being arranged sequentially like the Hillcourt article, it is divided up thematically. Consider splitting thee article into a 'personal life' section and 'scouting' section like in the Bade-Powell article. This would make it easier to separate Hillcourt's personal life from his achievements, and much improve the article.Zeus1234 (talk) 01:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Worked on this. Pulse check? — Rlevse • Talk • 00:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Support The article has been much improved, which means I can now support it. Zeus1234 (talk) 02:39, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now with these changes. Sumoeagle179 (talk) 22:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Did more tweaking with comments from Outriggr. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now.
    • Are these reliable sources?
    • He needs to be consistently referred to as "Hillcourt", not by his nicknames (per WP:MOSBIO)
        • Fixed
    • Quotations need to have a citation immediately at the end of that sentence.
        • Fixed, I think ;-) (FNs to nicks are in body)
    • Many repetitive sentence beginnings. For example, in Later Life second paragraph 4 sentences in a row start with "Hillcourt" or "He"
        • Fixed that one, advise if more
    • The Personal Life section seemed to jump around a lot which made it seem to now flow.
        • Thanks
    • Should not refer to Baden-Powell as B-P either.
        • Fixed

Karanacs (talk) 18:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

        • As for the refs, we can use other sources if you like, but they are reliable and we can also add companion sources, but the DESA one is the best there is. Thank you for giving ideas to improve. Advise if there are more. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • The first three references are reliable and have been used in other articles. That T125 reference is a copy of other sites repeating some incorrect information. I have removed it. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 19:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • There were three refs there, no problem. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional Support - this is a great article. I only found a few things I would like to see either improved or discussed:
  1. (For discussion) "Hillcourt decided to see Scouting around the world and to return home with the best ideas. He worked his way through Europe and England and arrived in the United States in February 1926. He was hired by the BSA's national office and in 1933 married Grace Brown, the personal secretary of James West, the Chief Scout Executive of the BSA. They had no children." - I'm bothered by the very short sentence at the end of the paragraph. Perhaps this could be fixed by taking the marriage out of the preceeding sentence and combining it with this sentence? Otherwise perhaps it could be combined with some more information about the marriage - such as whether the couple were married their entire lives or if they had other previous marriages, etc.
  2. (For discussion) "His writings are still relevant and his material continues to be reprinted in Scouting magazine." - the word relevant causes me a little concern. Relevant to whom or to what? To Scouting I assume since the reference is Scouting magazine. Maybe that would be more clear if it said "relevant to Scouting" or "used within the Scouting movement". I'm also a little concerned about the tense. The reference is from 2008 so that is as new as it gets, but what about next year or 5 years from now? Should this be "....reprinted in Scouting magazine as recently as __ 2008."?
  3. (optional) It would be great to have more ISBN's for the works, if availalbe. Especially the Boy Scout Handbook, ninth edition. Johntex\talk 22:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
All three issues worked, please advise if okay now. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Interesting article on an interesting historical figure. I note that in the closing paragraph on his "later life", the year of death is missing. Two other points: (1) It is not clear where the eponymous museum is located — I'd rather see it in the article than have to click on the citation to find the information. (2) "Still" is used twice in this paragraph. — ERcheck (talk) 02:23, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done, thanks for the input. Are there more concerns? — Rlevse • Talk • 02:33, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support — all of the input/comments on this page, with the responding improvements have served to improve the quality of the article. My kudos to all. — ERcheck (talk) 02:38, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, very well written and sourced article. Interesting and notable subject who's article seems very stable and neutral, follows all the guidelines. Very nicely presented subject. Dreadstar † 21:19, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good stuff Support, with optional suggestions.
Can we stubbify 2nd World Scout Jamboree so that anons who happen to like it the day its on the main page can add there?
Made a redirect to World Scout Jamboree for now. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -
"He was soon hired by the BSA's national office and worked for the BSA until he retired." he retired in.... <FIXED>
"In 1933 Hillcourt married Grace Brown, the personal secretary of James West, the Chief Scout Executive of the BSA. Hillcourt and Brown had no children and remained married to one another." seems better as "In 1933 Hillcourt married Grace Brown, the personal secretary of Chief Scout Executive, James West. Hillcourt and Brown had no children and remained married to one another."?<FIXED>
Do we have a better free image? The navbox one won't scale well to a thumb, and the other 2 are rather pixelated.<NO>
"He then worked for the BSA Supply Division where he broke his leg when a crate fell on him" in...? <UNKNOWN>
"iconic signature" seems a little POV-ish<FIXED>
See the signature in the infobox—this really is iconic within the BSA --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -
Is Aids to Scoutmastership notable enough to have a stub link?
"run a Wood Badge course" (double meaning), maybe "oversee/manage/instruct a Wood Badge course" <made 'oversee'>
"returning to the focus of Scoutcraft" a link explaing what Scoutcraft is and is not would be good <linked>
Was linked in earlier paragraph, but appropriate to link again. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -
A couple more See Alsos might improve the lower section MBisanz talk 04:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See also should be minimized per WP:GTL; there's no need to add to them. As soon as the personal webpage sources (non reliable sources mentioned by Karanacs) are replaced, this looks good to go. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:22, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, was not aware of that, thanks. MBisanz talk 06:29, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - William Harcourt is certainly compliant with the FAC criteria and the dedication of the users who have worked so hard on it is reflected brightly in the sheer composure of the prose. Delightful. Rudget. 16:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment looks like all we need now is for me to dig out the official DESA list I have at home. I'll do that this evening. LOoks like Sandy will be satisified then. Thanks to all for the help. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:36, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I fixed the ref Sandy was concerned about. Let us know if there are more. I also fixed this in the FL on Eagle Scouts. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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