Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tweed Courthouse/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 13 June 2020 [1].


Nominator(s): epicgenius (talk) 19:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the Tweed Courthouse, a historic building in Manhattan, New York City, erected in the late 19th century. Its construction was famously mired in corruption, and Tammany Hall leader William M. Tweed and his political allies siphoned off millions of dollars from work contracts. Much maligned until the mid-20th century, it was designated as a National Historic Landmark in 1974 and as a New York City landmark in 1984, and now serves as the New York City Department of Education's headquarters.

This page was promoted as a Good Article a few months ago thanks to an excellent GA review from Lizzy150. After a much-appreciated copy edit by Twofingered Typist, I think it's up to FA quality now. I look forward to all comments and feedback. epicgenius (talk) 19:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Truflip99

edit

Reserving spot. --truflip99 (talk) 19:52, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • May as well link courthouse in lead
    • Done.
  • Something needs to be done about the 3 red links
  • Modern restoration and historic preservation of the courthouse were completed in 2001. Since the completion of the renovation, the Tweed Courthouse has contained the headquarters of the New York City Department of Education on its upper floors, and schools on its ground level. The Tweed Courthouse was made a New York City Designated Landmark in 1984 and was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1974. -- possibly reorganize this by chronological order?
    • Done.
  • It consists of four and a half floors, including a half-floor attic, but excluding two mezzanine levels. -- I'm not really following this.
  • with the longer side being located on the west-east axis. -- you can omit "being" here
    • Done.
  • The roof was replaced three times: first with an iron roof in the early 20th century, then with an asphalt roof in 1978 or 1979, and finally with a stainless steel-over-rubber roof in 2001. -- roof is redundant
    • Fixed.
  • "some of the finest mid-19th century interiors in New York." -- the period should be outside the quote here, per MOS:LQ
    • Done.

More later. --truflip99 (talk) 19:58, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • The portico is approached by a reproduction of the building's original large granite stairway which was removed to accommodate a widening of that street in the mid-20th century[7][10][16] but restored in 2002. -- possibly merge these refs into one and put it at the end of the sentence. Also, just curious -- how did the restoration affect the widened street?
  • original pilasters, centered colonettes, and paneled blind railings, and are set within a marble surround. -- "which" are set?
    • Done.
  • Multiple documents and testimony -- not testimonies?
    • Done.
  • he worked with Richard Upjohn and Otto Blesch, collaborating with both architects -- borderline redundant
    • Removed.

More later. I got distracted by the muntin article while reading this and ended up shopping for DIYs. Looks good so far though. Well done! --truflip99 (talk) 20:31, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • The Tweed Courthouse is located at the northern end of City Hall Park[39] and is the second-oldest municipal government building in Manhattan, -- place ref at end of comma
    • Done.
  • The courthouse site had been occupied previously by the city's public commons and by a poorhouse. and Other government buildings would be built at the courthouse's future site, including an almshouse, -- isn't this rather redundant?
  • after New York City Hall to the south. and City Hall was situated just south of the courthouse site, -- this too?
  • "a classic in the annals of American graft." -- MOS:LQ
    • Done.
  • "many holes both in the floor and roof are visible in which to bury the money of the tax-payers." -- MOS:LQ
    • Done.
  • demolish the courthouse[75] as part of the restoration of City Hall Park. -- ref at end of sentence
    • Done.
  • Usage of the building was also changed several times. -- omit was
    • Done.
  • A long-term $6.3 million[86] renovation began in 1990, -- ref end of comma
    • Done.

Might be it from me on prose. Interesting read! --truflip99 (talk) 19:12, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

truflip99 Thanks, I have done all of these. epicgenius (talk) 22:18, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting! --truflip99 (talk) 15:53, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Edit: for the ref section, I don't think you need the "Notes" subheader, as those are not even notes. --truflip99 (talk) 15:59, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from John M Wolfson

edit

I'll take WikiCup points for this.

  • Why is the pre-restoration courtroom photo, which presumably dates to 1919, placed in a section dealing mainly with the 1970s?
  • File:EAST_FACADE_-_New_York_County_Courthouse,_52_Chambers_Street,_New_York,_New_York_County,_NY_HABS_NY,31-NEYO,116-5.tif says it was made in 1933, but I see the old World Trade Center in the background. Caught myself
  • The fourth floor contains a similar T-shaped plan to the floors underneath it. Like the floors below, it contains marble floors, plaster walls and ceilings, and corner stairs leading from the third floor. Stairs extend upward to the attic.[21] ... The attic contains a floor made of concrete and wood. A lattice truss and other structures supporting the roof, as well as the rotunda's skylight, are also located in the attic. should be condensed to one paragraph, methinks.
    • Done.
  • Perhaps the second-floor view and interior view of the rotunda are redundant.

That's all for now. I ran into this issue before, so let me state that this does not constitute a full image review. Otherwise this looks pretty good so far. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 01:12, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More

  • The building's facade was constructed in 1861–1872 to designs by architect John Kellum and political appointee Thomas Little. Not only is this suboptimally written, the "facade" remark leads me to believe that the building was only its exterior facade and otherwise gutted, which is contradicted in the body (since it was occupied by 1876).
    • Fixed.
  • Quite a few links, such as "foliate" and "Harper's Weekly", are linked multiple times throughout the article, contrary to best practices. You can use this tool to highlight them.
    • Done.
  • City Hall and the now-demolished Rotunda What Rotunda? (ditto for its future appearances) Also, I think the City Hall was built earlier than 1874.
  • New York City Board of Supervisors I believe it should be County.
  • Given the extent of the graft it would be nice to have inflation figures. {{Inflation}} can help with that where the year is known.
  • There were several attempts to destroy the courthouse throughout most of its first century of existence. "Demolish" might be a more "neutral" word.
    • Done.

Otherwise I'm inclined to support this. Nice work! – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 01:23, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One last thing: The Tweed Courthouse was made a New York City Designated Landmark in 1984 and was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1974. should probably be in chronological order. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 17:08, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Support. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 17:38, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

edit
  • "and the corruption involved in the building's construction was disclosed to the public." perhaps "exposed" for "disclosed"?
  • Done.
  • Panels of granite and Tuckahoe marble[11] and Sheffield marbles[12]" a bit run on?
  • Fixed, good catch.
  • " no documentation regarding the use of other quarries has been found.[6]" I might add a year.
  • Done.
  • Elevators is linked on second use.
  • Fixed.
  • Painted-over probably doesn't need the hyphen.
  • "brownstone" In the sense of a residential townhouse?
  • "He redesigned Kellum's neoclassical interiors with rich polychrome effects in Romanesque Revival style, as well as added ornamental and architectural detailing (such as arches and foliate detail) to integrate the new wing's design with the rest of the courthouse." Not sure "as well as added" works, maybe "and also added"
  • Done.
  • You say it was financed by stocks. Stocks in what? Were these more like bonds?
  • Some mention of Tweed's death might be useful.
  • Done.
I've made a few minor edits, feel free to change or revert as desired. That's all I have.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:01, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Wehwalt: Thank you very much for your comments. I think I've addressed all of them now. epicgenius (talk) 04:16, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks good.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:34, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

edit

I'd like to go ahead and do the image and source review for this. Hoping you could do MAX Yellow Line's ref review in return if you have time.

  • maybe move some images to the left in alternative fashion?
  • could you create a summary for the fireplace and mosaic floor photos?
    • Done.
  • source link for Portrait of Leopold Eidlitz?
    • Done.

Sources to follow. --truflip99 (talk) 15:57, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking up the image review truflip99. Regarding Hoping you could do MAX Yellow Line's ref review in return if you have time. - Sure, I could do that. epicgenius (talk) 19:39, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe a couple more pics to the left? --truflip99 (talk) 20:49, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Truflip99: I have done so. Technically MOS:IMGLOC says that images should be placed to the right if possible, but I don't mind moving some images left. epicgenius (talk) 16:31, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Refs - pass

edit

Starting. --truflip99 (talk) 17:03, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • The NYT scans should have page number included
  • infobox ref 2 -- move it to cover Leopold Eidlitz as well, since that ref states his name
    • Done.
  • "Historic Structures Report: Old New York County Courthouse". National Register of Historic Places, National Park Service. 1974. -- this bibl links to an NRHP nomination form, contrary to its wiki title, and seems to be a duplicate of ref 109
    • Removed.
  • ref 32 -- page?
    • Already given, just that {{cite journal}} formats it differently.
  • ref 49 -- page?
    • Removed.
  • ref 50 -- page?
    • Added.
  • ref 61 -- date is wrong
    • Fixed.
  • ref 64 -- expand the title with the sub title as it's too vague
    • Done.
  • ref 74 -- check year
    • Fixed.
  • Schuyler, Montgomery (1884). American Architecture And Other Writings – via Internet Archive. -- publisher? editor? why isn't date 1961? ISBN?
  • 109b -- does not support sentence
    • Removed.
  • 110 -- does not support sentence
    • Removed.

Appears to be it. --truflip99 (talk) 17:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Truflip99: Thanks, I have addressed these. epicgenius (talk) 21:52, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note

edit

Just a note to myself that source/image reviews are still required and have been requested at WT:FAC. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:10, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian Rose: It looks like the source and image reviews have been done. Additionally, this has four prose supports and no opposes. Is anything else needed for this nomination? Thanks in advance. 🇪 🇵 🇮 🇨 🇬 🇪 🇳 🇮 🇺 🇸 (talk) 15:02, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Harry

edit

Sources: All appear reliable and appropriate to the context. A few formatting inconsistencies:

@HJ Mitchell: Thanks for the comments. I really appreciate these, and have addressed all of them. epicgenius (talk) 23:10, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.