Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Markus Näslund/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 19:34, 11 December 2010 [1].

Markus Näslund

Featured article candidates/Markus Näslund/archive1

Nominator(s): Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article has undergone significant expansion, copy-editing and a peer-review since its GA promotion two-and-a-half years ago. It is extensive in its coverage of not only his NHL career, but his Swedish career, early life and personal life. I prepared this article for FAC in lieu of his Canucks jersey retirement taking place on December 11. I would greatly appreciate any comments/reviews. Cheers. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is a general rule of thumb that images with faces should look into the text, this is particularly important for infobox images, but otherwise fine Fasach Nua (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but what is the rationale behind this? Could you please direct me to a guideline or previous discussion? –Schmloof (talk · contribs) 04:11, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Manual of style Fasach Nua (talk) 06:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, the images in this article follow this pattern (except arguably the last one). However, I feel that the infobox should contain the best image to illustrate the subject, which, in my opinion, is the current one. The guideline also notes that there is considerable leeway when adhering to it ("images should not be reversed simply to resolve a conflict between these guidelines"). –Schmloof (talk · contribs) 08:21, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely err on the side of common sense, have a look on flickr for images, in the advanced search option you can specify creative commons, you may find an equally good picture facing the other way. However I certainly won't oppose on this issue. Fasach Nua (talk) 18:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All available pictures on flickr are already uploaded. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 04:01, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: Support all concerns resolved. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"The city with a population of 30,000..." Awkward sentence. Rather than note the population, I'd mention the fact that it is known for producing several quality hockey players in a little better detail.
"After a season of junior, Näslund joined Modo's professional team in the Elitserien..." Instead of saying professional, it should say something about it being their top-tier team, as that is more notable.

Later on in the sentence though, it mentions that the Elitserien is the country's premiere league. Does that accomplish the same thing you're thinking of or no? Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"...Näslund did not participate in post-season play and watched as Washington eliminated Pittsburgh in the first round." Need to clarify what it means by him watching; some reference to him being a healthy scratch (which I presume is the case).

I had originally written that he was a healthy scratch but it was replaced by the current wording by a copy editor because it was deemed too 'jargony'. What I've done before is link healthy scratch to a wiktionary listing or add footnotes. Thoughts? Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"In 14 games with Pittsburgh, he scored two goals and four points..." WP:MOSNUM says not to mix written numbers with digits.
"...he was named to his first NHL All-Star Game in 1999." An awkward sentence. Would be better as "first All-Star game, held in January 1999." This is repeated again in regards to the 2001 All-Star game.

Ok, I've changed that. I'm wondering how I should go about linking now. Should I link the year or the word "All-Star Game"? Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"On March 27, he scored his 100th point of the season..." Seems to be the only highlight of his career where the opposition is not named. Why not mention it was the Coyotes (only know that because I was there).
"...but was surpassed by Avalanche forwards Peter Forsberg and Milan Hejduk." Add "respectively" after Hejduk, otherwise it implies they both passed Naslund for goals and point.
This may be personal opinion, but I don't think you need to mention that the Pearson Award was renamed in this article.
..."capturing the inaugural 2008 Victoria Cup." Since its the inaugural Victoria Cup, the year is not needed.
..."Näslund was named an alternate captain to Chris Drury for the Rangers." Don't really need to include Drury here, as alternate captains don't really work for the captains.
Prague doesn't need to be linked as it doesn't help the article at all, but if you want the link to stay I'd expand it to read as Prague, Czech Republic and look less awkward. This is repeated a few more times.
"...1989 Four Nations Tournament in Russia." Russia didn't exist in 1989.
Wrist shot should be linked.
Good article, well written aside from those details. Nice to see another Canucks-related article up at FAC. Kaiser matias (talk) 03:10, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. I addressed all the above concerns, with the exception of the a few that I commented on. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to him being scratched, I'd say a link to the term would suffice. As for the All-Star Games, I would link the term itself, unless the context requires different. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:32, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good. As in, All-Star Game, held in January 2001? Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 06:58, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd even just go with All-Star Game, held in January 2001. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DAB/EL Check - no dabs, one external link problem- this link is dead. You're using it in ref 106. --Pres N 19:27, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced the dead link.--Mo Rock...Monstrous (talk) 22:38, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comments:

General point: there is significant repeat referencing, where a single citation would do. For example, the third paragraph of the Early Life section has three successive cites to [4]. There are other examples of successive citing that should be attended to.

Just to clarify then, I should remove the previous two citations in the third paragraph and have just one at the end of the paragraph? Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:28, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strings of four citations are unnecessary to support simple facts.

Are you referring to the first paragraph from the "West Coast Express" section? I cited four sources, as I thought this was a more a matter of opinion and would have needed multiple citations from difference sources to support that this was a widely-accepted notion. The same goes for the third paragraph of the "Playing style" section. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:28, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The statement "He matched that points total the following season before helping Modo to the quarterfinals of the Elitserien playoffs" is cited to Ref 13. I don't see any reference to this in the source.

It's mentioned in the fifth paragraph of the article. Did you want a reference for "He matched that points total the following season" as well though? Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 45: "Canadian Broadcasting Company?
Ref 143: In Swedish
Ref 144: In Swedish (check for others)

Above three issues addressed. Thanks. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:28, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise sources and citations look OK. Spotchecks carried out. Brianboulton (talk) 00:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

Vancouver Canucks: "Stojanov, who had been drafted eight spots ahead of Naslund in the 1991 Draft went on to play 45 games." Hate to harp on the punctuation, but there should definitely be a comma after "1991 Draft".
~~"prompting him to request to a trade once again." Remove the second "to".~~
~~What is sourcing the sentences on his season statistics that are ending a couple of the paragraphs here?~~ Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments. I've fixed the first two issues. In regards to sourcing stats, did you mean you want a source for each season statistic? Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What I meant is that when something like "He finished the year with 14 goals and 34 points over 76 games" is in an article, it should be cited like everything else. If the stats are all covered by present references, feel free to leave things as is. If not, which appears to be the case in several spots, those stats need to be referenced. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gotcha. I've gone ahead and referenced all the season stat totals. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 09:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose 1a, for the moment: This looks to be a thorough and well researched article, but I'm afraid at the moment it seriously needs a copy-edit. There are several problems with prose and it does not read well. I've read as far as the Modo hockey section so far. Normally, I would try to copy-edit myself, but I don't have time at present. I would suggest a non-hockey editor has a look, and I imagine the sections I have not read properly need copyediting as well. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:22, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References seemed to check out, up to end of Modo hockey section. However, this one was a little close for comfort (ref 4):

Original: For most of his youth he played organized hockey on outdoor ice in his neighborhood.

Article: In his youth, he played most of his organized hockey on an outdoor rink in his neighbourhood.

Lead
Three successive sentences begin with "he" in the first paragraph. In fact, the prose in the whole lead is not good. Out of 15 sentences, 7 begin "he", 3 begin "Naslund" or "Marcus Naslund" and 3 begin "in".
The lead also uses lists of information too much, for example "Näslund was a three-time First Team All-Star, chosen in 2002, 2003 and 2004, and a Lester B. Pearson Award recipient, winning in 2003" and "in two European Junior Championships, two World Junior Championships, four World Championships, two World Cups and one Winter Olympics". This could be summarised more for the lead.
Could something be added here (I assume it is later in the article) about his ability or reputation, as well as the awards he won?

Started to work on the lead a little bit, but I'd welcome anyone else taking a crack at it. In regards to having a more concise summary, would it help to remove the years? Also, pretty much all his major awards have been mentioned in the lead, including team awards, so I'm not sure how much more I can add in that regard. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 09:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Early life
"The city is known for producing numerous NHL players..." I'm sure it is known for more than that, so what about "The city has produced..."
"including childhood friend and former Modo Hockey teammate Peter Forsberg, as well as former Canucks teammates, Henrik and Daniel Sedin.": Not sure about "former teammate": presumably they are former teammates now (is it teammate or team-mate?) but weren't when he was a child, which is when this section is describing. I would prefer "future" team-mate or simply "Modo players"/"Canucks players".
Any details about his organised hockey? For example, how was he selected for the regional team?
Three sentences in a row begin with prepositional phrases ("growing up", "in his youth" and "at age 14") Then later, two sentences in a row begin "they".
Any more details about his upbringing and education?

Details about his early life has been hard to come by, but if I encounter anything about his upbringing or education, I'll be sure to add it. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 09:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Modo hockey

"a mark which stood as the highest points total for a 17 year old in the history of the league for 12 years until Robert Nilsson broke the record in 2002–03 with 21." Clumsy sentence, particularly "with 21" at the end. What about "a record points total for a 17 year old in the league until Robert Nilsson scored 21 in 2002–03."
I usually have this problem, so feel free to ignore it, but I think drafting needs explaining to those outside of North America who are not too familiar. Is there a link, or a simple one sentence explanation?
"He compared Näslund to the Los Angeles Kings' Swedish forward Tomas Sandström, though not as aggressive..." Not sure about "though not as agressive". What about "although he did not consider him as aggressive a player".
"a purer goal-scorer": How can a goal-scorer be pure? Maybe "a natural goal-scorer" or "more natural goal-scorer".
Lots more "he"s starting sentences in this section.

I also scanned through the rest of the article and noticed that although there is a playing style section, nothing really seems to mention how good he was, for example opinions of critics, journalists and coaches.

Thanks for your comments.. I've been pretty busy lately, but I hope to begin addressing them soon. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 23:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Query - I can't tell who the oppose above belongs to. Nominator, can you figure it out and attach a signature? --Andy Walsh (talk) 15:05, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It was me, I had my signature after my comments but I've added one to the oppose now. --Sarastro1 (talk) 17:22, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.