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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mantra-Rock Dance/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain 01:37, 23 February 2011 [1].

Mantra-Rock Dance

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Mantra-Rock Dance (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Cinosaur (talk) 07:46, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe that the article:

  • is sufficiently well-written, having been scrutinized for prose and style by a few expert editors, including one at the Guild of copy-editors;
  • is comprehensive in its coverage – to the best of my knowledge, the article leaves out no important details in relation to the subject;
  • draws upon most, if not all, of the existing reliable sources on the subject that I am aware of (admittedly, there aren't too many);
  • appears to present the subject neutrally and without pushing any particular point of view;
  • is as stable as you can get;
  • follows the style guidelines;
  • is illustrated with appropriate, historically significant and properly licensed images, including one featured picture;
  • is exhaustive but not verbose.

Many thanks for your time reviewing this nomination. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 07:46, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

  • Earwig's and Coren's tool found no copyvio
  • Books with 2 authors should include both in Footnotes
  • Identical footnotes should be combined per WP:REFNAME
  • "Goswami 2011, pp. 201" is only one page, and thus should use "p." instead of "pp."
    • Fixed.
      • "Goswami 2011, p. 132-5" should use "pp.", and an ndash instead of a hyphen
  • Citations to websites need retrieval dates
  • Suggest putting Notes before Footnotes
  • Commemoration section: the source says only that a free "Mantra Rock Concert" was held in People's Park - thus, most of this section is unsupported. Furthermore, the source said that this event took place August 18, not 17
    • Thanks for catching the date typo. Done. However, the source I added is a website that does have an editorial policy, but might not be as reliable a source as the rest in the article. What to do?
      • It'd be best to find a more reliable source. However, failing that, I'd suggest simply merging the whole section into Reaction and cutting out everything unsupported by the reliable source in the process. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After establishing his first American temple in New York City at 26 Second Avenue, Prabhupada requested his early follower Mukunda Das and his wife Janaki Dasi to open a similar ISKCON center on the West Coast of the United States" - source?
  • "Prabhupada's appearance at the Mantra-Rock Dance made a deep impact on the Haight-Ashbury community. He became a cult hero to most of its groups and members, regardless of their attitudes towards his philosophy or the life restrictions that he taught." - source?
  • "It was organized by followers of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) as an opportunity for its founder, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, to address a wider public, and as a promotional and fundraising effort for their first center on the West Coast of the United States" - cited source says that Swami Bhaktivedanta spoke to the public, but does not support the rest of the sentence. Nor does it support your later assertion about media coverage, at least not on the page cited
    • This was a tough one. I am sure I had sources for both the "surprise appearance" and the "first time". However, I could not find these statements now, so rearranged the prose to follow the sources cited. Please see if this is better now.
  • "Prabhupada's followers started chanting and distributing sanctified vegetarian food (prasad) at any important event in the locale, usually with the swami in attendance" - vs "devotees chanted and distributed prasad at any important event that was happening, usually with the swami in attendance" - close paraphrasing
    • Reworded the section some more to avoid close paraphrasing. Please see if it looks better.
      • Yep, both this and the preceding point seem to be addressed
  • If Leary's appearance was a surprise, how could it boost the event's popularity? Your source also doesn't support that it was a surprise
    • See above.
  • "brought a state of ecstasy" vs "brings a state of ecstasy" - since the source has that as a direct quote, you could do the same
  • "thousands of hippies respectfully stood to receive him with applause and cheers" is word-for-word from the source, and not in quotation marks - that's plagiarism
  • Multiple formatting inconsistencies in References that need to be fixed. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:29, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I did fix some inconsistencies and will be grateful to be shown the rest of them. Thank you for such a thorough review of the sources. Please let me know if there are any other issues to be taken care of. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 02:18, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Cohen entry needs formatting fixes; you don't need to include information on the source of the digitized book for Google, but just the original publisher info; be consistent in using "New York, NY" or just "New York"; need state or country for Wellingborough, as it's not a well-known location (and probably for Kassel too, but that one's more obvious); be more consistent in what is wikilinked when in References. Also, are there two different locations for Prentice Hall? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Formatted the entries further. I could not quite get, though, what the problem was with Cohen entry except that I removed him as editor. Added locations and countries, or states for the US, removed sources for digitized books. Anything else? Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 03:48, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Just a few more quick things: UK, not England; you have two different locations for Prentice Hall; Cohen is either a facsimile ed. or a 1st ed., not both. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
            • Done. Double location for Prentice Hall was already fixed. Removed 1st ed. and changed England for UK. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 04:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
              • Hate to harp on this, but no, the Prentice Hall issue was not already fixed - you still have both "Englewood Cliffs, NJ" and "Upper Saddle River, NJ" listed as locations for Prentice Hall. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
                • Nikkimaria, these two different locations are both correct:
  1. Ellwood, Robert S.; Partin, Harry Baxter (1988) has Englewood Cliffs, NJ, and
  2. Szatmary, David P. (1996) has Upper Saddle River, NJ.
The publisher might have shifted during the 8 years between the publications. There was another location listed for one of the books that I removed. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 04:35, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, okay. That's strange, but I'll take it - issues resolved. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:06, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. A quick google search seems to confirm that Prentice Hall was indeed located in Englewood Cliffs earlier on. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 05:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disambig/External Link check - no dabs or dead external links. --PresN 19:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments — Interesting read. I'm leaning towards support, but it seems to me where could be more material in the "Event" section. This article by Gurudas mentions for example several interesting facts that aren't in the article:
  • Hell's Angels serving as security guards
  • Jefferson Airplane and Grace Slick performed there. Would it be possible to compile a list of everyone who performed that night?
  • There's some stuff in there you might want to consider add as an extended quote, to help capture the spirit of the evening (I'm thinking in particular of the part starting "Then Swami Bhaktivedanta entered. He looked like a Vedic sage, exalted and otherworldly. As he advanced towards the stage, the crowd parted and made way for him, like the surfer riding a wave..."
  • The article is otherwise well-written, but I think it would benefit from some more details. Sasata (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Reply: Sasata, thank you for your comment and suggestions. I also wanted to include these and other details from Gurudas's book, but have not got hold of an actual copy yet. Hopefully I will get the book in a couple of weeks and will then insert the extra details as relevant, including the quote you suggested. In the meantime, I am understandably reluctant to reference the site as a source in the article, because it does not seem to qualify as a WP:RS. However, judging by the excerpt, except for the interesting tidbits, the book is unlikely to add much to the substance of the article, therefore I decided to go ahead with the FAC anyhow.
As for the list, it has turned out that there are different accounts of which groups participated in the event. I wrote to the event's main organizer, Mukunda Goswami, and according to him, mentions of Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, and Grace Slick are a misreport. However, I am planning to add these groups' names in a note as alternative reports of the event's participants, once I get hold of the book by Gurudas. But I am not sure if this disagreement between the principal sources on the participants will allow to compile the list, as suggested by you, beyond the ones already mentioned in the article, which the sources unanimously agree upon. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 21:03, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I can understand that in general the website looks a little sketchy as a RS, but this page clearly indicates that memories 62-66 are excerpts from the book, so I think it might be okay to cite as if from the book, but give the link (and indicate in the citation that the info is coming from the website). When you get hold of the book, you can insert the actual page numbers. Have you tried checking San Fransisco Chronicle or Berkeley newspaper archives for any additional info? I think the idea of including the names of the other groups as "alternative reports" is a good one. Maybe many attending were so stoned spiritual that night they couldn't clearly remember who was playing? :) Sasata (talk) 21:36, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The idea to reference the details to the book sounds reasonable. Will do later today. Yes, I did scrutinize both the Google News archive and SF Chronicle for any related info, to no avail. Somehow the event even slipped by the SF Oracle's attention, what to speak of the more mainstream ones. FWIW, I wrote to Grace Slick asking her to confirm if she performed at the event along with Jefferson Airplane. Lets hope she'll reply. "[S]toned spiritual" – LOL! Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 22:11, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sasata, I got the book, will add more details shortly. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 10:05, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Please see if it's better now. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 20:12, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The additions look good; I will revisit shortly and scrutinize the prose and sources more closely before committing to a support :) Sasata (talk) 20:27, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Added some more facts from a couple of sources. Here is the overall additions diff. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 01:28, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • A few minor tweaks suggested below: Sasata (talk) 06:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Despite his position as a Vaishnava sannyasi and some of his New York followers objecting to the invitation they considered inappropriate" please clarify why they thought it was inappropriate
  • "Prabhupada agreed to come from New York to San Francisco in order to take part in the event."
  • "… some of the most prominent rock groups of the time …" There's only two groups mentioned before this, so I think it would sound better to replace "some" with "two". And, it might be a good idea to qualify the statement with "in the United States" or "in California".
  • "… were being projected onto the walls."
  • The Gurudas quote is short enough that it doesn't need to be blockquoted.
Good points. Done. Cinosaur (talk) 07:17, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Added an image of the commemoration poster which had just got licensed on Commons. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 13:06, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Thanks for making the additions and changes. I'm satisfied that the article meets the FAC criteria. Two final things: Sasata (talk) 15:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • please check wp:YOUTUBE to confirm that the youtube external link is ok, and, the link should let the reader know that it's leading to youtube. I'd use a format like
  • citations that are based on print documents (like the Google Books links) don't need retrieval dates. In general, these dates are to help a future reader who might need to access an internet archive if the link has gone dead, but Google Books aren't archived like this, so it doesn't apply. Sasata (talk) 15:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sasata, I've implemented both suggestions. The YouTube video seems to be ok copyright-wise. I must've misread Nikkimaria's suggestions regarding access dates above. Thank you very much for your support and patient guidance towards improving the article to the FA standard. I have learned a lot in the process. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 01:44, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I peer-reviewed this article in mid-January and thought it good. It has only improved since then, and I agree with Sasata that it now meets the FA criteria. Finetooth (talk) 20:34, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, Finetooth. The article would've been unlikely to ever end up on the FAC page without your meticulous peer-review suggestions back then. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 01:44, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support Very nice work. Well-written and well-referenced article. Certainly meets the FA criteria.Gaura79 (talk) 07:56, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your support, Gaura79. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 15:32, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Image check Most images have OTRS tickets, and I did not enquire further once I saw them. The ones that are not are self-taken of public scenes (Haight-Ashbury). All images are verifiably free under appropriate licenses, therefore.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:49, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks, Andy, for promoting the article, and Sasata, Nikkimaria, Finetooth, and Gaura79 for your helpful reviews and/or support. Regards, Cinosaur (talk) 01:35, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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