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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Interstate 75 in Michigan/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:01, 24 August 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Interstate 75 in Michigan edit

Interstate 75 in Michigan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Imzadi 1979 → 06:26, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I think this is ready. I-75 is Michigan's Main Street, the longest highway in the state of any kind, and the only highway to run on both of Michigan's peninsulas. If any highway in the state is worthy of consideration for FA status, it is this one. Imzadi 1979 → 06:26, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image check - all OK mostly OK (most of the images have been checked during ACR), 2 issues:

  • File:I-75_(MI)_map.svg - probably trivial for a road expert, but the image summary should name the used base map and where the road data was taken from.
  • File:WalterChrysler.jpg - buying an image does usually not transfer copyright. This image should be replaced (or clarified by the uploader). I marked it for further checking on Commons. (replaced, likely will get deleted on Commons).
  • Other images are OK, as noted during ACR. GermanJoe (talk) 11:45, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • The map creator (25or6to4) updated the source information on the map. I'm looking into options on the other photo. I should have something uploaded from the Library of Congress in a moment. Imzadi 1979 → 21:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • File:Walter P. Chrysler at White House (cropped).png comes from a collection of photos donated to the Library of Congress and there are no use restrictions. It has been substituted, which means there isn't any further issue with the images with this article. Imzadi 1979 → 21:48, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • All points solved, thanks. Status updated. GermanJoe (talk) 18:17, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The second paragraph of the "Northern Michigan" subsection of the route description has no references. —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 17:13, 1 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • The second paragraph of that section was referenced, but if you meant the third paragraph, I inserted the missed references. Imzadi 1979 → 20:05, 1 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I stumbled here from my FAC, and since it's a Michigan road article, I had to comment, since they're notoriously horrible (in that they provide too much competition in the battle for who has better articles - Michigan road articles or Atlantic hurricane articles).

  • "Interstate 75 (I-75) is a part of the Interstate Highway System and runs from Miami, Florida, to Sault Ste. Marie in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan." - I think "that" would work better than "and" for flow purposes, but that's just my opinion.
  • "named for politicians that helped get the bridge built" - since they're people, I think "who helped" would work better.
  • "between M-8 (Davison Highway) and McNichols Road" - I think you should add a location for each. McNichols doesn't have a link, so it's not that helpful. The lowest mentioning the county is useful though.
  • Any updated traffic count? (gotta ask)
    • MDOT does annual traffic counts, but their inclusion in the TMIS website lags about 18–24 months behind. As I recall, a different freeway had the crown temporarily in 2011 because road construction depressed traffic usage along that section of I-75, and the 2012 numbers aren't yet available. Imzadi 1979 → 23:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • " for about six miles (9.7 km) " - they should both either be spelled or as numbers. Ditto later on with "five miles (8.0 km)" and "three miles (4.8 km) "
    • I disagree; even numbers under 10 are supposed to be spelled out as words, and decimals should not. These are also approximations (since I've been told it's bad to be overly precise in these cases), so unless I had a reason to be more specific, I left them rounded off to the nearest mile. Imzadi 1979 → 23:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and I-75 merges with US 23 to turn northerly to run around the west side of the city" - feel like this could be worded better
  • There are a few too many usages of the term "runs" in the route description, IMO.
    • I'll look over this later and see about making some changes. Imzadi 1979 → 23:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "North of the river, I-675 reconnects to I-75, and the latter freeway runs northward" - given that the article is about I-75, I think the ending could work better written as "reconnects with I-75, which continues northward"
  • I think you should clarify that "Northern Michigan" is still in the lower peninsula, since when I first saw that, I thought it was the UP.
    • I'm not sure the best way to handle this anomaly of our state's quirky geography. The region that encompasses the northernmost areas of the Lower Peninsula is called just that, and traditionally that has always excluded the UP, even though some things in the UP use the "Northern Michigan" adjective (the university in Marquette, a bank in the area, and the Episcopal Diocese). Some people do use the "Northern Lower Michigan" name, but in my personal experiences, that's not nearly as common.
  • " and crosses the 45th Parallel, the halfway mark between the Equator and the North Pole by latitude." - is this properly sourced?
    • Unlike the other parallels of latitude, the 45th is drawn on MDOT's maps, and it is signed at the crossing near Gaylord. Imzadi 1979 → 23:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "passing Indian River and crossing the river of the same name" - you should say "the town of Indian River" for it to make more sense.
  • I think there is too much info about Mackinac Bridge in the route description, considering there is a section later on for "Monumental bridges"s
    • The Mackinac Bridge is the closest thing Michigan has to a toll road. Articles on toll roads typically include specific sections on the services provided, and the tolls assessed, by the controlling agency, in this case the Mackinac Bridge Authority. No other section of I-75 has a dedicated radio station, a special police force or the driver services, all of which would be included in a "Services" section on toll road article. Also, a toll road article would have a "Tolls" section to expound on the toll collection and assessment methods. Since there's the "Monumental bridges" section further down, I tried to keep the historical aspects of the structure there and the practical aspects like services and tolling in the "Route description" subsection. (I'll also note that the tolling information for the International Bridge is included at the very end of the RD.) Imzadi 1979 → 23:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Saginaw Trail ran north from Detroit to the Saginaw area where it connected with the original Mackinaw Trail that ran roughly parallel to, and west of, the modern I-75." - add a comma somewhere in the first part.
  • "The system was signposted in 1919" - is that a verb?
  • Do you have any more details about I-75's construction? There is a lot about the turnpike, and after the interstate act of 1956, suddenly I-75 comes into being the next year. Were they planning construction for a while, despite the issues of Ziegler? There is also nothing about the planning for the Mackinac Bridge. See below, kinda.
    • Ziegler had planned his own freeway, as the article mentions. He's quoted as saying that a parallel freeway would "reduce tolls on the turnpike 40 to 50 percent" in the section discussing the Michigan Turnpike. The corridor was studied for upgrades as far back as 1947, also as discussed in the article. Imzadi 1979 → 23:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The first sections of freeway for I-75 were opened in 1957. The southern section near the Ohio state line opened in October 1957." - if these both cover the same thing, I would merge them together. Something like "The first sections of freeway for I-75 were opened in October 1957, beginning with the southern section near the Ohio state line opened in October 1957."
  • " between Kinross and Dafter in the UP.[73] and the former segment" - I see a period there. Was that intended to be a comma, is something missing, or what?
  • "who founded Fisher Body later a part of General Motors" - add comma?
  • I think the photo of the Mackinac bridge should be more of a side angle and one during the day, since the current one is a bit tough to see. JMHO
    • I think I found a better one, an aerial photograph that still manages to convey the sheer length of the structure. Imzadi 1979 → 23:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The International Bridge is nearly three miles (4.8 km) long encompassing spans" - comma

All in all, pretty good. Just the above for me. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

All of your points are addressed except where noted above. Imzadi 1979 → 23:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And some copy editing for verb variety has been done. Imzadi 1979 → 03:08, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for clarifying, everything looks good then! --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate comment -- an awful lot of dup links, do you have the script installed? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:29, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll play with linking somewhat, but a lot of the links that are duplicated are located long distances apart. This has a long "Route description" (fitting for the longest highway in the state of Michigan), a long "History", and the longest "Exit list" of any highway article for Michigan. There is a minimum level of duplication needed because first mention of some items are going to be whole sections, or even several subsections, apart from the duplicates. Imzadi 1979 → 19:18, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK, based on that tool, nothing is relinked within the "History" section. (Although that duplicates links from the "Route description", which benefits the readers given the length of text between them) There are three links repeated within the RD: "Kawkawlin" is relinked on the 7th paragraph away from the section's "mini-lead", and both "Chippewa County" and "M-48" are on the 13th paragraph away from the mini-lead.

There are some items in the "Freeway names", "Monumental bridges" and "Related trunklines" sections that duplicate links from the RD or the "History" sections, but there a lot of text and a huge table in between reuses. Imzadi 1979 → 20:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian Rose: ping? Imzadi 1979 → 03:27, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid it still looks like overlinking. I'd hope we can give our readers credit for a longer attention space than one screen's worth of data. The multiple links in RD don't seem necessary to me -- I don't think any section is long enough to justify dup links within the section, so pls re-review with that in mind. On a related note, linking such a huge and well-known subject as World War II even once is a bit dubious -- linking more than that seems to border on obsessive... ;-) Finally, I don't understand the linking logic re. Michigan under Monumental bridges -- why pipe the city to the state, especially when you mention the city just before? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:56, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@Ian Rose:, I'll remove them all then. Give me about 5 minutes. Imzadi 1979 → 06:03, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As for the linking, they are separate cities: Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, and Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, separated by their namesake river and an international border. Which one would I link under the city name? Should I list each city name separately and have the redundant language? Imzadi 1979 → 06:09, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I misread that bit... :-P Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:14, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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