Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Frank Barson/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 16:28, 18 November 2007.

Frank Barson

After reading up on Frank Barson I decided to look him up on wikipedia and found this was the article, I then gradually expanded the article to what it is today. It has recently passed to a GA now I feel it is ready for FA. Thanks Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 14:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose -
- Comprehensiveness. There are large gaps, 91 appearances in eight years at Barnsley and 140 appearances in six years at Manchester United merit far more than a single paragraph each.
  - At Barnsley there was the world war in between? But no info if he fought or what? And at Man U he was injured a lot of the time as it says. I will look for more info but its hard to find!
- The lead contains some facts which are not present in the body of the article.
  - Done
- There are issues with the prose. Awkward phrasing, run-on sentences and over-use of passive voice are all present to some degree. However, comprehensiveness is the more pressing concern.
  - Ill give it a re-write when I have time.

Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 10:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC) Oldelpaso 15:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Objection[1a,1b, 1d]-cool article,
writing is more like sports magazine in parts than an encyclpedia,
- Reply I'll have a look through and try to re-write bits which sound like that. Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps due to sources aimed at bias loving football crowd - more reliable non-propagandist sources would be nice. But I can imagine they would be very hard to get.
- Reply Yes that is one of the problems as there is barley any information that is why I think this article brings together all the information that is out there - but that's me Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's not as easy as you make it sound to extract truth from bias.--Keerllston 04:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"although it's not known whether he merely decided he wanted the job and nobody dared argue with him. He celebrated his appointment by scoring with a header from thirty yards out" a lot of things are unknown, such as whether Elvis went back in time picked him up, and is now currently partying with him. I note that unknown is not in the article. Why "he celebrated it" -Do you mean that on his next game he scored a header from 30 yards? Hardly seems like a celebration about his new post and instead normal football. Calling it a celebration is very much "sports magazine" tone and not encyclopedic tone.
- Reply Celebrated - being named captain is something people would celebrate and seen as he didn't score many goals in his career a goal as well as your first game as captain would be something to celebrate. Also a header from 30yards is something that doesn't happen often! Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - I know, but unlike getting drunk is not often celebratory, mostly luck/chance/good pass, it could have had a salutory effect on his enthusiasm and therefore an effect on his playing ability, but the truth is is this statement is clearly not the proper tone.--Keerllston 04:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"and was so sick of such attention" better would be that he said he was sick of it- I don't think diseases actually develop from that kind of attention.

"Coaching career" has little information other than his coaching titles. Information on who and how he coached would be nice.
"Personal life" lacks information on family, relationships, early life, education, and so on.
- Reply As with both of these its hard to find the information but I will have a look Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

--Keerllston 15:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response - I will try to fix the issues brought up when I get back from work! But from a player who played in the early 1900's - Barnsley it is hard to find the info but when I get back I will. Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Object a bit too flamboyant on the newspaper style prose. Also, is "englandfanzine" and "ye olde tree" RS? I'll need convincing. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 23:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply As with every source there may be some doubt! But things do overlap from the sources so I think they are fairly reliable. As Barson played so long ago when lots of things weren't wrote down as much. I will give the article a full copy-edit. Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 23:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)

OpposeSorry I missed the PR. I can't support but have the following comments.
- Choppy prose in lead. Could do with flowing out sentences and a copyedit.
- "hideous challenge" - bit POV.
- You have Youth clubs in the infobox but no mention of them other than Cammell Lairds.
- "notorious temper" - OR unless you can cite it.
- "ugly brawl" - again, is that a direct quote or is it POV?
- "...very public fall out..." - you need to expand on this.
- " Barson undoubtedly played a large part in the Villa team during his three seasons at the club, but it is his run-ins with authority for which he is best known." - this sentence just says WP:OR all over it. It needs direct and clear citation (I might have missed it!!)...
- "His living arrangements caused further controversy on the opening day..." - how?
- " it's" - not in a FA - "it is"
- "He celebrated is first game as captain... " typo I assume!
- "The most famous story..." - original research again...
- Wikilink cap.
- Expand his England appearance, against whom, how did it go, if possible...
- Ensure references are aligned per WP:CITE so directly after punctuation if possible...
- " injury plagued" - should be hyphenated? A bit colloquial...
- "Watford player Joe Davison was later sent off in that game with the referee reportedly saying "Off you go, Barson"." - expand and explain.
- "...Fulham's Temple" - picky, but is that a place or a person?
- Wikilink FA.
- "but within five months (October 1929)" - yuck. Flow dates into the prose.
- "...signed amateur forms for Wigan Borough.[7] He became a professional for Wigan in July 1930 in what was Borough’s last full season as a Football League club..." - this is confusing!

Hope some of my comments help. The Rambling Man 17:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.