Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Blockhaus d'Éperlecques/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose 13:04, 18 December 2012 [1].
Blockhaus d'Éperlecques edit
Blockhaus d'Éperlecques (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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This is the second of three related articles (the other two are Fortress of Mimoyecques and La Coupole) that I will be nominating for featured status. The latter article achieved this status in September (see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/La Coupole/archive1). Next March is the 70th anniversary of the start of construction of the three sites described in these articles and I envisage running a triple Today's Featured Article covering all three articles (see User:Prioryman/Heavy Crossbow FA blurb). In advance of that, I'm nominating this article, which is already a Good Article, for consideration as a Featured Article. Prioryman (talk) 23:46, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Current status
- Support
- Oppose
n/a
- Comments only
Comments This article is in very good shape, and I'm always a fan of potential FAs which feature photos and graphics created by the nominator. I have the following comments and suggestions:
- "He suggested that the missile should be launched from heavily defended fixed sites, constructed in a similar fashion to the massive submarine pens then under construction in occupied France and Norway, where the rockets could be stored, armed, fueled from an on-site LOX production plant and launched." - this is a bit of a complex sentence - I'd suggest splitting it into two sentences
- "It was given the codename" - this might be better described as a 'cover name'
- What's the source for the information in the File:Watten site diagram.png diagram?
- Several places. I created the image myself in Inkscape. The source information is a mixture of ex-Crown Copyright material from the UK National Archives, display material at the site itself and material from a number of books (all of which presumably draw on the original site plans at the National Archives). Prioryman (talk) 21:05, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "and construction plans were presented to Hitler on 25 March 1943, who immediately gave the go-ahead for the project to begin" - this should be split into a separate sentence
- Were the German specialist workers treated harshly as the current wording suggests?
- "falling ill or being unable to work through injury was the equivalent of a death sentence, as they would either be left to die or be transported back to the concentration camps from which they had been brought" - is this correct for all the foreign workers? (and were they prisoners of war as stated?) While the Germans worked Soviet POWs to death and held them in severe conditions, their treatment of POWs from other nationalities was generally OK until the closing months of the war (though Italians were often treated badly after 1943). Civilians forcibly conscripted from these countries were often treated in the way you describe, so the use of POW might not be correct here (or it could be an early example of the Germans mistreating POWs I wasn't aware of).
- On a related topic, are there any estimates of the number of prisoners who died during the construction process, and was anyone prosecuted for the harsh treatment of the workers after the war?
- "A large dump was established at Watten next to the River Aa, which was eventually used for stores for all the V-weapon sites in the Saint-Omer area. " - this is a bit awkward (how about A large dump was established at Watten next to the River Aa, which was eventually used to store material required for all the V-weapon sites in the Saint-Omer area"? - which I suspect could also be improved upon).
- "At the end of May, the British Chiefs of Staff instructed General Eisenhower to organise aerial attacks on the sites." - this can't be correct as Ike was still in the Mediterranean at the time (he also didn't gain control over the strategic bombers until the lead-up to D-Day)
- The last sentences of the paragraph which begins with "The Germans' main focus of attention switched instead to Wizernes" need a reference
- "and nothing could be determined about how well it had penetrated the concrete" - this is a bit awkward
- Do we know why the French and British inspected the facility in 1951?
- "It was left to lie fallow" - I don't think that the agricultural term 'lie fallow' is an appropriate term to apply to a large concrete bunker!
- "In 2009, the museum welcomed 45,000 visitors" - are more recent figures available? (probably not)
- "RAF 11 Group" - this should be No. 11 Group RAF
- The 'Air raids on the Watten site' contains a bit of over-linking Nick-D (talk) 10:50, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I've raised a couple of issues above, but both of them are of a minor nature and aren't a barrier to the promotion of this fine article. As noted in my initial comments, great work with the high quality self-created photos and images as well as the high quality text. Nick-D (talk) 09:51, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Source review - spotchecks not done
- "Dornberger's staff subsequently decided to continue minor construction at Watten "for deception purposes". The site itself was now useless, as the Germans recognised when they wryly codenamed it Concrete Lump, and the liquid oxygen generators and machinery were transferred to the Mittelwerk V-2 factory in Germany, well away from Allied bombers" - source?
- FN4: don't need italics on quote
- Fn10: formatting
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- Current footnote 10, which appears to double the magazine title. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:50, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- FN44: italics on magazine name
- Done.
- Where is Esslingan?
- Be consistent in whether you abbreviate state names, and whether you use "DC" or "D.C."
- "Missisagua" - do you mean Mississauga? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:30, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. (Edits may take days to show up on that page.) - Dank (push to talk) 04:56, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Whole lotta sentences starting with unnecessary "howevers"; even paragraphs. See here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:39, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. I reworded two and left two. There are 17 howevers on the WP:MOS page, not counting the subsection on however, which mirrors my experience: I don't think we're going to get people to abandon them entirely. But I'll remember to give them a closer look and reword when there's a case to be made that "however" is either inappropriate or too strong. - Dank (push to talk) 05:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I found this last night, in case it helps. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- That's really good, thanks. - Dank (push to talk) 16:16, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I found this last night, in case it helps. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments – I went through the entire article and found it to be an interesting read. There were a few issues that I detail below, but nothing major. If they can be taken care of, I'm likely to offer support.
Ref 5 could be moved outside the parenthesis, like ref 6 is.
Construction: The Organisation Todt link should probably be moved up a couple of sentences, to where it first appears in the text.
- I'm a bit confused by this; the first link to the OT appears in its first mention in the body text. Or have I missed something?
- There is a usage in the first sentence of this section, and the link appeared in the third sentence. I fixed it myself, so don't worry about it. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm concerned that "The living conditions were appalling" sounds like we are giving our own opinion on the issue, even though I'm sure it's true. The language could be made more moderate while keeping the main point intact.
Em dash in the next sentence ought to be a smaller en dash instead, or you may want to make the dash unspaced. I'm surprised this wasn't caught earlier in the process.
Discovery, destruction and abandonment: You don't need two Chiefs of Staff Committee links in three sentences here.
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- I saw both links still in the article, but took the second one out. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"On August 6, Sandys also...". I notice that Sandys' first name is given in the next section, but not here. It should be the other way around.
Air raids on the Watten site, 19 March 1944: What is the 1. doing after the colon?
16/17 June 1944: Period before ref 58 should be a comma instead.Giants2008 (Talk) 01:39, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support – After taking care of the last couple of things I saw, I think this deserves the star. As far as I can see, it meets all of the FA requirements. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.