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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 19:16, 21 May 2010 [1].

Benet Academy edit

Benet Academy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Benny the mascot (talk) 23:48, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Benet Academy — a small, vibrant Catholic school located amidst the tranquility of the Chicago suburbia. Featured as one of the nation's most outstanding high schools, later rocked by scandal in a statewide university admissions policy, and just recently lauded for it's boys' basketball team's impeccable performance, Benet Academy adds a unique piece to Wikipedia's diverse collection of information, which to this day has no FAs on private high schools. This article has gone through extensive copyediting following a successful GAN review by Nasty Housecat and peer reviews by Finetooth and Ruhrfisch (thanks to all of you!). Thanks in advance for your comments. Benny the mascot (talk) 02:23, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. No dab links or dead external links. Ucucha 23:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for checking, and for fixing the dashes in the article, too! Benny the mascot (talk) 00:28, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Comment. I did the GA review on this article a while back and I am impressed at how much it has improved with the benefit of a lot of work and a very good peer review. A few minor comments:

  • US grade levels are not familiar to non-US readers. You should add age equivalents, as well.
    Age equivalences added. Benny the mascot (talk) 01:10, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

* Is it possible for Rev. John to gaze into the page?

  • That picture is already a flipped version of the original. The picture will have either Jaeger's eyes or knees pointing into the page, so which do you prefer? Benny the mascot (talk) 00:36, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

* “…continues to house the administrative offices”. As of 2010?

* “DuPage County Board Chairman Robert Schillerstrom endorsed a plan....” This seem unclear to me. Why did they approve such a plan? Did they use it in the end?

  • Hopefully I've clarified the statement. The reasoning behind the plan is unclear, though. Perhaps it was more of a "let's help our schools in any way we can" kind of plan. Benny the mascot (talk) 13:43, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

* You sometimes use “percent” and sometime use “%”. Choose a favorite?

* “…9.69 percent of students are Asian or Pacific Islander, .625 percent are Hispanic, .859 percent are African American,…” This seems like too much precision. Maybe “less than 10 percent” and "less than one percent” respectively?

* “All 327 students in Benet's graduating class of 2009 took the ACT as juniors …” The ACT might bear brief explanation for non-US readers. Also, why did they all take it? I believe it is required, is it not? Isn’t that unusual?

  • I clarified what the ACT is. Also, taking it is a state requirement for public school students only. [2] All Benet students end up taking it simply because they all plan to go to college. Benny the mascot (talk) 18:26, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

* “…second only to the Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy.” That is actually quite impressive if you know what IMSA is. Most people do not. You might want to explain a bit.

* “In an article related to the University of Illinois clout scandal…” This is not something people generally will know about. It could use some explaining, as well.

--Nasty Housecat (talk) 23:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much! Benny the mascot (talk) 11:34, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Ruhrfisch comments I peer reviewed this and, as requested, here are my FAC comments. These are all pretty minor and I expect to support once these issues have been addressed.

  • I think it would help to mention United States somehow in the lead - perhaps as U.S. state *US is not usually linked).
    US state not linked to, but I did add "United States" after "Illinois". [3] Benny the mascot (talk) 15:02, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is awkward The orphanage moved in 1898 to Lisle, approximately 25 miles (40 km) west of Chicago,[6] where St. Procopius also moved to in 1901. perhaps The orphanage moved in 1898 to Lisle, approximately 25 miles (40 km) west of Chicago,[6] in 1901 St. Procopius also moved there.
    Done with minor tweaks Benny the mascot (talk) 16:18, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Generally there are no refs in the lead except for direct quotations or extraordinary claims. The lead here has only one reference and it is neither of these things. I think that the distance from Chicago is only in the lead, so it should be repeated in the article somewhere and the ref moved there.
    Ref moved over Benny the mascot (talk) 16:18, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the lead I think I would link Benedictine University to "the college" in this sentence The orphanage closed in 1956 to make room for St. Procopius Academy, which then separated from the college in 1957.
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 16:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Problem sentence in the lead Benet's average ACT test score has exceeded statewide and national averages, and more than 99 percent of students have gone on to college after graduation. This makes it sound like this has been the case in the past, but is no longer so. Since this ref and others make it clear this is current as of the 2009 school year, how about something like Benet's average ACT test score regularly exceed statewide and national averages, and more than 99 percent of students typically go on to college after graduation. Or you could make it As of 2009, Benet's average ACT test score exceeded statewide and national averages, and more than 99 percent of students went on to college after graduation.
    Done. I chose the latter. Benny the mascot (talk) 16:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • How about The athletic program fields 23 teams, several of which have competed in their state tournaments. instead of The athletic program fields 23 teams, several of which have placed in their respective state tournaments. I am not sure "placed" is clear here - does it mean more than just competed in the tournament?
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 16:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I wrote this as I read through the article - if "placed" here meant that they were not only in the tournament, but did well (fourth place or better) then I owuld be OK using it with some clarification. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:35, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Clarified Benny the mascot (talk) 23:35, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is a team a person (can you use who)? Students may join around 30 clubs or organizations, including the Math Team or Scince Olympiad team, who both have won awards in their respective state tournaments. How about Students may join around 30 clubs or organizations, including the Math Team or Scince Olympiad team, which both have won awards in their state tournaments.
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 16:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Awkward It was named after Saint Procopius of Sázava, who during the eleventh century had founded a monastery in Bohemia and who became the first canonized saint of Czechoslovakia.[10] how about something like It was named after Saint Procopius of Sázava, who had founded a monastery in Bohemia during the eleventh century and later became the first saint from the former Czechoslovakia.[10] (Are there saints who are not canonized? Also since Czechoslavakia no longer exists, I made it "the former Czechoslavakia")
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 16:51, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per WP:LASTNAME, drop "Rev." in Rev. Jaeger, the first Bohemian abbot in the United States, was urged to found a Bohemian monastic community ... and make sure the rest of the article follows this, for example Rev. Neuzil was later replaced as rector by Rev. Ildephonse Wittman... (the second Rev. is OK as it introducing him, as is the use of Reverend in the caption). Also need to fix the second and third mentions of Rev. Bauer later
    Hopefully removed all repeat occurrences of "Rev". In the sentence "Abbot Jaeger was present at the groundbreaking...", I think I should keep "Abbot" in front of "Jaeger" to avoid confusion with his sister. Benny the mascot (talk) 16:51, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I am fine with keeping Abbot - as you note it avoids confusion with his sister. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:35, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there any reason not to move some refs to the end of a phrase or sentence so that they come after punctuation. For example, in School operations were moved in May of that year,[18][19] and classes began in September[18] with a six-member faculty hired to teach 11 students.[9] why couldn't ref 18 just be at the end of the sentence instead?
    I cleaned up the refs. Do you think I should move all of the other mid-sentence refs as well? Benny the mascot (talk) 17:41, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    While that is my preference, it is not an actionable request at FAC (you can do it if you want, but do not need to for my sake). I know it would be a lot of work, but do think in most cases things read better with refs after punctuation. Thanks for your work so far, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:35, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll take a look at the relevant guidelines before I begin such an exhausting edit, then. Benny the mascot (talk) 23:35, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would move this sentence Neither this nor World War I greatly affected daily life at St. Procopius; there were no food shortages throughout the entire period.[20] after the next several sentences about the school farm and change it to something like Neither the Great Depression nor World War I greatly affected daily life at St. Procopius; the farm's output helped ensure that there were no food shortages.[20]
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 00:04, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is unclear World War II caused college enrollment to fall once again, leaving mostly high school students and seminarians behind. I think it means that the student body during WWII was mostly high school students and seminarians.
    Hopefully clarified Benny the mascot (talk) 03:24, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink Laity to lay in ...the percentage of day or commuting students rose, and the school employed more lay teachers?
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 03:24, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • A very confused sentence: Enrollment at St. Procopius grew even more during the 1950s and 1960s, a time when rising affluence and birth rates prompted youth to seek the educational opportunities provided for them by the G.I. Bill.[12] First off, the birth rates rising increased the pool of students, but rising birth rates in and of themselves did not prompt more students to see education. Second, since this is an article on a high school, the GI Bill would not have covered the costs (though it would have covered college tuition and the college was still associated with the high school). I suggest something like Rising affluence and birth rates meant that enrollment at St. Procopius grew even more during the 1950s and 1960s.[12] The ref is from the university and the rest of the sentence applies to that article, not this one.
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 03:24, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another place where the refs could be simplified The orphanage ultimately closed in 1956 to make room for St. Procopius Academy, which separated from the college[8] and began its own operations in 1957.[9][8] First off, refs are generally in numeric order (so [8][9]), second and more importantly, why do there need to be two uses of ref 8 in one sentence? Why not just one use at the end of the sentence?
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 01:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • What was St. Mary's Hall? New parking areas were planned, and St. Mary's Hall was to be demolished.[34]
    The Benet alumni have put together a page with info on such things. However, since it's almost like a wiki, it might not be considered a reliable source. What are your thoughts on the web site? Benny the mascot (talk) 02:04, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that it seems a less than perfect source in terms of reliability. More importantly, the only mention of St. Mary's Hall I found on the web site did not say what it was. If no more information exists, that is OK, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I couldn't find any info from reliable sources. Benny the mascot (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Drop "after all" - seems to be POV. I would also drop adjacent as it does not seem necessary: Benet responded by saying their plans complied with village building codes and that "the school was there prior to the homes being constructed;"[35] after all, both the Oak Hill South and the adjacent, larger Oak Hill subdivisions lie on what used to be Benedictine land.[36]
    [4] Benny the mascot (talk) 01:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • How can a campus have a top floor? Also crammed seems a bit POV, perhaps "...groups used small, crowded rehearsal rooms": The need for more space became obvious as the school's music groups were crammed into small and crowded rehearsal rooms on the campus's top floor.
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 01:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Awkward Its placement on campus is symbolic of the well-rounded education that is complemented by the performing arts program; as the school president stated, "The theater is at the extreme east of the school, the gymnasium is at the extreme west. In between is where the academic part is."[37] Howw about As the school's president noted, the performing arts center's placement on campus is symbolic of a well-rounded education: "The theater is at the extreme east of the school, the gymnasium is at the extreme west. In between is where the academic part is."[37]
    I struck this as I saw you'd fixed it, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Problem caption St. Daniel Hall features an outdoor theater surrounded by an indoor auditorium. - it is clearly not "surrounded by" the other auditorium - how about "adjacent to"?
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 00:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink St Therese to Thérèse of Lisieux
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 00:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Admissions section - should the year be added to the first paragraph? "As of 2010, admission is competetive..." Also is there any allowance made for legacy students (the children or grandchildren of alums)?
    Done. And I couldn't find any sources that suggest that legacy students are given special preference. Benny the mascot (talk) 00:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for checking on the legacies. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 02:23, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the Academics section needs more dates - the Tribune article is from 2003 and this should be noted. The USN&WR article should also be dated - any reason not to have the ref to the USN&WR article and not local newspapers reporting on it? Similarly, anything that is current practice (like the last two paragraphs in this section) should be identified by year (As of the 2009–2010 school year, ...)
    Mostly done. I don't have access to the USN&WR article, unfortunately. Benny the mascot (talk) 02:35, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Problem sentence: Students in the class of 2013 previously hailed [came] from 65 different grade schools and junior high schools and live in 34 municipalities located in the counties of DuPage, Cook, Kane, Will, and Kendall counties,[57] although most students come from the cities of Lisle, Downers Grove, and Naperville.[52] Lisle and Downers Grove are villages not cities ;-)
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 23:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The MOS says no superscripts on things like in the 92nd percentile on that exam so just in the 92nd percentile
    Fixed by Cunard. Benny the mascot (talk) 05:32, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • May be clearer to say In the 1920s Rev. Bauer served as Athletic Director while [also] coaching basketball, baseball, and football at the same time.[71]
  • Done Benny the mascot (talk) 23:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Records are set, not won Benet's boys basketball team has won various state records, including a 102-home game winning streak ...*:Done Benny the mascot (talk) 23:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • An Appalachian service trip to coastal Norfolk, Virginia??
    Contradiction removed. Perhaps the info was outdated??? Benny the mascot (talk) 02:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I said this in the Peer Review too, I think Benedictine University should be mentioned in the body of the article, not just a note.
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 23:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hope this helps, overall good job, just lots of nit picks. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 18:23, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have struck all of my comments, but would like to see the issues raised by Karanacs addressed before I support. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 21:10, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am also concerned about http://www.illinoishsglorydays.com/id651.html - what makes this reliable source? Ruhrfisch ><>°° 14:29, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The only issue keeping me from supporting is my question on the reliability of www.illinoishsglorydays.com as a source, above. Not sure if you missed it, so thought I'd point it out. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 13:16, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have been completely aware of that issue; real life has just kept me away for a while. Apologies for the delay — the source in question, along with its Sacred Heart counterpart, has been removed. Let me know if you have any other comments. In the meantime I'll continue to work on the problems Karanacs has pointed out. Benny the mascot (talk) 00:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have struck everything and switched to support. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:33, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much! Your suggestions have definitely been helpful. Benny the mascot (talk) 01:55, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Support, with some minor comments.

  • For consistency with the rest of the entries in the Alumni section, would you include the year Molly Schaus attended Benet?
    Schaus attended Benet Academy during the 2002–2003 school year, according to this source (December 19, 2002) and this one (March 30, 2003). Perhaps "...during her freshman year in 2003" could be changed to "when she was a freshman during the 2002–2003 school year"? Cunard (talk) 20:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 00:20, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref #111 (link) is a dead link. Would you update this link if it can be found somewhere else on the web, or remove it if it cannot. To prevent the other links in the article from becoming dead links, I suggest archiving them through WebCite. The WebCite link can be added to the reference template through the |archiveurl= and |archivedate= parameters. For an example of an article that uses archived links, see World Chocolate Wonderland.
    I've replaced that source with a new one. I'll start archiving the references eventually. Benny the mascot (talk) 17:58, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    WebCite is down right now, so the references cannot be archived yet. I believe WebCite is generally considered a reliable website, though, since there is a bot, WebCiteBOT (talk · contribs), that adds archived urls from it. Cunard (talk) 20:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article inconsistently uses or omits commas. For example, "In 1926 Benedictine nuns constructed ..." omits a comma after "In 2006", while "In 1899, the monks opened St. Joseph Bohemian Orphanage ..." includes a comma after "In 1899". Please standardize the article to use only one style.
    Done. Hope I didn't miss anything! Benny the mascot (talk) 17:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I skimmed the article and have not found any inconsistencies. Cunard (talk) 20:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: I made some copyedits to the article; if any of my edits introduced errors or inconsistencies to the article, feel free to revert.

Excellent article. This was a very informative and enjoyable read. Good luck, Cunard (talk) 04:32, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for your help! Benny the mascot (talk) 05:32, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose for now by Karanacs. Overall, I'm concerned at the balance of coverage and I have questions about the level of sourcing. details below:

  • "Neither the Great Depression nor World war I greatly affected daily life" - is this really meant to be WWI? If so, please put these in chronological order; otherwise please change to WWII.
    Reordered Benny the mascot (talk) 22:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Two paragraphs in a row talk about the lack of effect the Great Depression had, This seems repetitive - can you take another look at the organization of those two paragraphs, plase?
    Reorganized Benny the mascot (talk) 03:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    The organization is still not good. When you map out the topics you get this: Falling enrollment due to Great Depression - Accred. denied due to funds/enrollment - funds gone - daily life unchanged - accred. approved. Then, in the following paragraph, info about how they were sustained in Great D. - daily life not affected (and a jump back to 1917). This needs to be rethought. Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok, I see your point. What was wrong with the original organization? I think that version kept things more in chronological order. Benny the mascot (talk) 23:41, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there any information about why there were so many out-of-state students, or why the ratio of out-of-state to in-state changed in the 1940s?
    I couldn't find any. Benny the mascot (talk) 16:11, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This seems redundant - " the high school enrolled an average of 30 students (not including college students)." - the high school wouldn't enroll college statudents, would it? They'd be enrolled in the college?
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 17:07, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the Progress section might need to be segmented. It follows a chronological line to the 1960s, then switches back to 1910 to talk about the orphanage and follow another chronological line. Once we get back to the 1960s, we then go all the way back again to 1926 to discuss the girls school. To me, this implies three separate sections, one for each chronology.
    Done Benny the mascot (talk) 16:42, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Better, but the topic still changes in the "Merger and Beyond" section. Keep the focus on the boy's school at first, then bring in information about the girl's school. Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    That's how the current version is laid out, though. The Move to Lisle section discusses the boys' school, then two sections later the girls' school is mentioned. After that the coed school is discussed. And I really think that a stand-alone section would be inappropriate for the all-girls school. The paragraph is too small and still mentions in part the all-boys school. Benny the mascot (talk) 23:41, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think some of the After the merger information is much, much too detailed. As an example, we don't really need an entire paragraph on parking! This is trivial, when it could be summarized by simply saying that "Residents and the school have argued over the school's parking policies since 2001." (and that's if we even need to include this at all, my thought is no). There are other, similar issues with this section.
    Excess detail removed. Anything else? Benny the mascot (talk) 16:33, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Better, but do we care about details like "zoned lighting", where drama students used to practice, etc? This needs to be read over again very closely. Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • do we have any information on when admission requirements changed to competitive admission instead of only those of a certain ethnic background?
    I've added the following to the end of the "Academics" section: "Benet's faculty has credited the school's academic success to Rev. Ronald Rigovsky, who served as principal for 23 years and as president from 1987 to 1992. During his tenure, Rigovsky developed the school into "one of the highest scoring and most scholastically respected high schools in the Chicago area," according to the Chicago Tribune." Is that sufficient? Benny the mascot (talk) 12:40, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do we need to have that much detail on the Christmas Drive?
    Excess detail removed Benny the mascot (talk) 13:52, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Watch for repetitive prose "Every student organization is encouraged to raise money for this activity, which is jointly coordinated by three student organizations" (two instances of student organization in one sentence). Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not all of your citations have publishers listed
    I've added publishers to the sources, among other things. Did I miss anything? Benny the mascot (talk) 16:11, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Citations aren't consistently formatted. Look in particular at the different ways that Daily Herald and Chicago Tribune references are done and standardize on one. Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, no publisher here Boykin, Ames (April 28, 2008). "Suburban students shine at Illinois Science Olympiad". http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=180826. Retrieved March 26, 201

or here Broz, Joan (March 4, 2010). "Sondheim classic at Benet Academy". http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=362972. Retrieved March 26, 2010. Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm concerned that almost the entire history section is from primary sources. Are there no books about the history of Chicago, the history of Lisle, the history of the Benedictines in the US/IL, etc which contain information about this school? No newspaper articles about the time of the merger that give a brief overview of the history?
    I've used secondary sources before, but decided to remove those citations because they were superseded by more detailed primary sources. In addition, there really aren't that many secondary sources covering Benet's history. Benny the mascot (talk) 17:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I've added some new secondary sources. Am I going in the right direction? Is there anything else I need to do? Benny the mascot (talk) 01:55, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I appreciate the effort and this is an incremental improvement, but I'm concerned that so much of this is still sourced to either self-published websites (the university, the school itself, the parish) or to official Catholic Church books. In particular, I worry that statistics and motivations are being sourced solely to self-published websites (as an example, see 2nd paragraph of Chicago section). Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I've been using mostly Google Books for these sources. Is there another resource you recommend so that I can find more acceptable references? Benny the mascot (talk) 23:41, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Google Books is a good starting place, but not the be-all and end-all of research. I hope that if you are using Google books you make sure that you are able to read the full chapter of the affected entries - otherwise you may miss important context and possibly misinterpret information. If you live in the area, go to the library and see if the reference librarian can help. Contact the school to see if they know of any independent resources to talk about the school. Search the archives of the local newspapers (not just the last few years). If you haven't done these things yet, then I think you need to shelve this nomination so that you can spend make sure you've done the essential research. Karanacs (talk) 13:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes schooltree.org a reliable source?
    Statement it sources removed Benny the mascot (talk) 23:46, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Current citation 61 needs to have the full name of the magazine (U.S. News and World Report). Magazine names need to be in italics
    Full name added and italicized Benny the mascot (talk) 23:46, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is citation 66? (Patricia PEterson). There is no publisher
    Added Benny the mascot (talk) 23:46, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Is this the high school newspaper? If so, is there any administration oversight as to the content? If not, then I don't think that is a very good source at all. Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    The Benet Connections is the school newsletter. It's contents are written by students, alumni, and staff and are edited by the Development Office, which consists of paid employees of the school. Benny the mascot (talk) 23:41, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Karanacs (talk) 15:55, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry it took me so long to return. I've stricken some comments and left follow-ups on others. Karanacs (talk) 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here's a few comments just in the lede.
    • "and more than 99 percent of students went on to college after graduation." - do you have an exact percentage? Saying "99.5% of students" would be better than "more than 99". Also, it should be % and not "percent", IMO.
      I don't know the exact percentage, so "more than 99" is as accurate as we can get. Also, WP:MOS#Percentages discourages the use of % in non-scientific or non-technical articles. Benny the mascot (talk) 00:20, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Students may join around 30 clubs or organizations' - the wording could be better and stronger, such as "The school has 30 clubs and organizations" - more direct.
      Done, but I still kept "around". Benny the mascot (talk) 00:20, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Benet's performing arts program has staged annual musicals since 1997, and the Benet bands have been invited before to perform in state events." - two things. Instead of using the "has/have" modifier, the wording would be stronger if you say "program began staging annual musicals in 1997, and the band program performed regularly in state events."
      I've implemented some of your changes ([5]), but your other suggestions sounded a bit odd in terms of wording, tone, and style. We can discuss this if you disagree, though. Benny the mascot (talk) 00:20, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricanehink (talk) 21:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. I'm not happy about several aspects of this article, and I'm surprised to have to find myself saying that after the review has been open for so long.
    • Check what the Mos has to say about the punctuation of image captions.
      Captions fixed Benny the mascot (talk) 00:27, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Notable alumni section is just a bulleted list.
      This is not at all uncommon. See Plano Senior High School or Amador Valley High School, both FAs, for example. Benny the mascot (talk) 04:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why the image gallery?
      Removed Benny the mascot (talk) 04:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Some of the writing is pretty dodgey. For instance, from the lead: "The school has around 30 clubs and organizations, including the Math Team or Science Olympiad team, which both have won awards in their state tournaments." "Or" and "both" just doesn't work here. "Benet's mascot is the Redwing. The athletic program fields 23 teams ...". How are those two thoughts related? It reads like a random brain dump.
      Hopefully fixed Benny the mascot (talk) 02:06, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Malleus Fatuorum 03:33, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry that you feel this way, but do remember that it's impossible to write a perfect article. Benny the mascot (talk) 04:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh please: reviewers give up their time to give professional advice and judgement. Your comment, Benny, looks like a mild knock-back. BTW, we would be pleased if you reviewed a few nominations yourself to get a sense of the task from the other side. Tony (talk) 09:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What you need to remember Benny is that I'm just trying to help you get this article through FAC by pointing out to you areas that I think need some attention. I certainly don't expect "perfection", but I do expect decent grammar and prose. The sourcing is a concern as well, as Karanacs has pointed out. It's not easy reviewing articles, and it takes time. Why not do as Tony suggests and try it for yourself, see what it feels like to be on the other side of the fence? I'm on both sides now, for instance, as I not infrequently am, with this offering. Why not offer your opinion on that? Malleus Fatuorum 23:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't trying to offend you in any way; I'm just surprised that you've cast an "oppose" vote. It's not even a weak oppose! From what I've read on the FAC process, it's generally understood that all contributors have varying writing styles. From what I've seen in other FACs, people just "comment" when they have issues with the writing style, but never have I seen anyone oppose solely on the basis of criterion 1a. If you had opposed on the basis of sourcing issues, then I would have understood. And to mention that I got two additional oppose votes three weeks into the FAC; couldn't you have come a little earlier? If you had commented earlier, then maybe I could have addressed your concerns in a timely manner, and I wouldn't have had this false hope that the article could pass FAC. Benny the mascot (talk) 00:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You haven't offended me in the slightest, and I'm really sorry that I wasn't able to fit in with your schedule, but the bottom line is that this article isn't ready. Like it or not, 1a) is one of the FA criteria, and unlike you I've seen many articles opposed on that basis alone. Malleus Fatuorum 00:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, fine. I've addressed all four of your bullet points. I would appreciate it if you would respond to those now. Benny the mascot (talk) 02:06, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Who appointed you my boss? I gave you a few examples, and Tony has given you a few more. This article is not ready. Malleus Fatuorum 02:15, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just referring to the FAC instructions, which I'm sure you're very familiar with. If you take a look at the previous reviews, you would see that resolved objections are crossed off. And relax...I'll work on Tony's suggestions soon. Benny the mascot (talk) 02:34, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm quite relaxed, just as I'm certain that this article does not meet the FA criteria. It's not my choice whether or not this article is promoted, I've only offered my opinion, and I won't be offering it again. Malleus Fatuorum 03:18, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose.

  1. Suggest "Illinois" not be linked, since it's a chain-link already in the more specific "Lisle": that is where the readers need to be funnelled, surely. I would pipe down "Roman Catholic Diocese of Joliet in Illinois" to just "Diocese of Joliet", no matter what the target title is.
  2. "The orphanage moved in 1898 to Lisle, approximately 25 miles (40 km) west of Chicago; St. Procopius also moved there in 1901." Could this be "In 1898, the orphanage moved to Lisle, about 25 miles (40 km) west of Chicago, to be joined by St. Procopius three years later." Or something like that. Then we don't get "in 1901. In 1926", apart from other issues.
  3. "Admission is competitive and relies primarily on test scores." Is the selectivity a modern thing? If so, tell us "since [year], ... has been ...".
  4. "The school's academic program has been featured in reports by the Chicago Sun-Times and US News and World Report." Um ... ok, to get such press coverage, the standards must be high, I guess. (Put the last sentence first?) You need to tell us this, or we're wondering whether newspapers do this all the time—churn through every school in the area over the years. I'd rather just know that it has received press coverage, with a ref tag to the dates and names of the newspapers at the bottom (or even not in the lead, but further down, is possible for the refs).
  5. Boys'
  6. "Benet's performing arts program began staging annual musicals in 1997, and the band program has previously performed in state events." The tense is odd: "has previously"? What is the time-benchmark here?
  7. Well-known hyphenated in my US dictionary, especially before the noun. "Grammy winning" is not the standard wording, and would need a hyphen anyway. Can you look at a few "Links to" articles from "Grammy awards" to see how it's worded?

On the basis of the lead, I think this is premature. Tony (talk) 09:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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