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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2007–08 Pittsburgh Penguins season/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 19:58, 8 November 2008 [1].

2007–08 Pittsburgh Penguins season edit

Nominator(s): GrszReview!

This article recently passed as a good article, and feeling that any issues then have been addressed, I am nominating it for featured article. This article has expanding and developed greatly over the course of the last year in real time, and I feel it sufficiently meets all of the featured article criteria. GrszReview! 19:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
  • http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/draft2007/index/ (ref #85) is a deadlink.
  • Ref #10 needs publisher info.
  • Same with ref #14.
  • In ref #28, should "PittsburghPenguins" be two words?
  • In refs #40–#55, Associated Press is the author, and the Pittsburgh Penguins is the publisher.
  • Refs #70 and #71 need publisher info.
  • Otherwise, sources seem to be fine.

–Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 19:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - all done. GrszReview! 19:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good, just one more comment. Ref #85 needs a last accessdate. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 22:27, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, those cursed accessdates. Done. GrszReview! 22:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Penguins also participated in the AMP Energy NHL Winter Classic—the outdoor game set the NHL single-game attendance record." The dash is an interrupter, but here we need a closer grammatical integration of the clauses. Why not "The Penguins also participated in the outdoor AMP Energy NHL Winter Classic, which set the NHL single-game attendance record." or some such. Do you need to add "at the time"?
  • En dash for scores (12–2); please see MOSDASH. I haven't read further than the lead; the prose looks passable thus far. Tony (talk) 15:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done, unless one hid. GrszReview! 13:37, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments -

  • Current ref 6 (Crosby out ..) needs a publisher
  • Current ref 68 (Penguins recall...) needs a publisher
  • As a note, large numbers of the sources are from the club itself, so other reviewers should be aware of this when reviewing, in order to watch for unintentional bias creeping in.
Otherwise sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 11:13, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. I realize a lot of the sources are from the team, however, I feel you'll find the prose fair and balanced. GrszReview! 13:37, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - I'm interested in this article for personal reasons, as a season article would be a likely candidate for me to do if I wanted to bring something to FA in the future (that'll be the day). In any case, allow me to suggest some modifications.

  • I see that the use of primary sources is at issue already. Most of these are game reports or AP news stories, so they will be avaliable on numerous independent websites. If you want me to, I can find some outside sources to replace the ones from the Penguins' website. I may not be able to write an FA, but I can definitely find sources for one.
  • "The 2007-08 Pittsburgh Penguins season was the Pittsburgh Penguins 40th season in the National Hockey League." First, I don't like the repetition of Pittsburgh Penguins. I've created some season stubs for featured list purposes, and always used "was the xxth season for the club...". "club's (or team's) 40th season" would be fine for getting rid of that repetition. If this isn't changed, an apostrophe is needed after the second use of Penguins, While here, define NHL by placing it in parentheses after National Hockey League.
  • "The regular season began on October 5, 2007, against the Carolina Hurricanes and concluded on April 6, 2008, against the rival Philadelphia Flyers." Was October 5 opening night for the entire NHL? If not, make sure the readers know that this means Pittsburgh's season. That would also be a good place to put a team link if you make the above change.
  • Would you mind linking Sidney Crosby in the lead? For that matter, why is there no picture of him anywhere? He's only the biggest star in the NHL.
  • "The team was defeated in the Stanley Cup Final by the Detroit Red Wings in Game Six." Change the last part to "six games" to make it clearer.
  • "Season events: "The Penguins offseason activities... Add apostrophe after Penguins.
  • En dash for 2008-09 season.
  • "going 2-6-1" En dashes again. Try to check throughout for this.
  • Remove the second goaltender link in the section.
  • Link the Atlanta Thrashers.

I'm going to run through this myself for some basic fixes before posting any more comments. These, however, should give you enough to work on for now. Giants2008 (17-14) 23:28, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed all but the sources for now. GrszReview! 00:42, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Before I review this further, I want to see if anyone has a problem with these result templates in the middle of the text. I know that Sandy has discouraged these hidden tables in the past, but I don't know where these would fit in well. Perhaps at the bottom of the page? Giants2008 (17-14) 02:22, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you mean, if you could clarify? GrszReview! 02:25, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm talking about the tables with results from all the regular season and playoff games. I recommend asking Sandy if this is a problem, and what to do if it is. She mentioned the templates in one of her edits to the article. Giants2008 (17-14) 19:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh ok, just wanted to be certain what you meant. GrszReview! 20:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Although I'm still waiting for opinions on the templates (paging Sandy), I might as well offer more prose comments since this hasn't been touched for a week. I did go through this earlier, removing overlinking and adding a couple en dashes.

  • External links go after references.
  • Season events: "Commencing with a pivotal Thanksgiving Day shootout victory against the Ottawa Senators..." Pivotal sounds like POV to me. Why was this win more significant than any number of other wins during the regular season?
  • Spell out the American Hockey League (AHL).
  • "Before Fleury's eventual return as a starter on March 2, Conklin recorded a record of 17-6-5..." Recorded and record are repetitive when they are this close. I recommend changing one of them.
  • Winter Classic: A reference is needed for the fact that the game set the NHL attendance record.
  • Fan support: "The March 27 game against the Islanders received a TV rating of 10.7, the second highest rating all-time for a Penguins game." TV rating→television rating. Again, it's better to spell this out....
  • "A rally scheduled by Allegheny County executive Dan Onorato and Mayor Luke Ravenstahl took place in front of the Allegheny County Courthouse prior to Game 2 of their first-round series on April 11." Who is "their" supposed to be in this sentence? Surely you don't mean the politicians. Also, the tense is incorrect when combined with the prior sentence.
  • I see "second highest" and "third-highest" in this section. Please check for consistent hyphenation.
  • "Fans who visited the Igloo to watch the three games played in Detroit..." The use of Igloo here is a great example of jargon. Non-hockey fans won't recognize that this refers to the Penguins' home arena.

Considering that I haven't gotten to the playoff recaps yet, I'm going to oppose after seeing this many issues. Try finding other editors to give you a hand with copy-editing this. Giants2008 (17-14) 01:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Giants, I addressed those issues. Grsz11 →Review! 02:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ultimate Standings: Fan Satisfaction Rankings," Comma outside the quotation mark, I believe.
  • Plans for the future: Remove comma after October 2.
  • Eastern Conference Quarterfinals: "Two days later, the Penguins managed to eliminate the Senators in four games, the only team to do so in the first round." Confusing sentence. It sounds like this is the first time Ottawa got swept in round one, but I believe it is referring to this postseason. If so, it needs to be rewritten.
  • Eastern Conference Semifinals :-( "and Sykora took the lead twenty seconds later." Should be "and Sykora gave the Penguins the lead 20 seconds later.
  • Similar to the last comment: "Staal scored a powerplay goal to take a 1-0 lead." Again, it sounds as if he took the lead, not Pittsburgh. There are other occurances later, and I don't like them either.
  • "The Penguins entered Game Three at Madison Square Gardens..." Garden is singular.
  • Any reason why Game 1 and Game Three are both used? The number usage, or non-usage, should be made consistent throughout.
  • "With the win the Penguins became the first team since the 1983 Edmonton Oilers to start the playoffs 11-1." Hyphen should be an en dash. I changed a bunch of hyphens to en dashes before, but must have missed this one. My apologies.
Overall, I'm still not comfortable enough to strike my opposition. Keep working on it, and I'll give you another batch when these are done. That's assuming this isn't archived, which it might be soon if more attention from other reviewers isn't forthcoming. Giants2008 (17-14) 00:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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