Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2004 World Series/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 19:38, 27 October 2009 [1].

2004 World Series edit

Nominator(s): BUC (talk) 06:57, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I first found this article in this form, and just thought it was very poor. So I've been working on it on and off for over a year to give it a total re-write, remove piontless large amount of piontless trivia and added in refs where needed.

I withdrew the last nomination for this article because I felt there was too much still to do. I hope now having given it enough extra work, having given it another PR and contacted everyone that gave feedback on the last nomination. BUC (talk) 06:57, 31 August 2009 (UTC) *I've put the logo removal debate up for a simple vote on the talk page here.[reply]

Restart, old nom, alt text, dabs and sources checked. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support As per before. Took a lot of work, but looks great. Staxringold _talk^contribs 22:36, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments which remain unaddressed from prior to restart:
Format of "The Star-Spangled Banner" is all over the place. It should be "The Star-Spangled Banner" (quotation marks included and linked) the first time used, then with quotation marks and no link after that. Never italicized.
- So it should only be linked once in the whole article? BUC (talk) 09:51, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, generally things are only linked the first time they appear. black ngold29 16:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
~~Mentioning Faithful (book) might not hurt in the aftermath. I'll leave it up to you if you want to include it.~~
~~In Game 1, Tessie should be in quotes and linked to Tessie, not Tessie (EP)~~
~~Double needs linked to the leadoff one by Damon, not the later ones by Rentería and Walker~~
~~In Game 2, God Bless America should be in quotes, not italics (this goes for all songs)~~
~~It states that Schilling was in "considerable discomfort", "considerable" sounds awful close to POV to me. A quote from the article would be better.~~
- "considerable discomfort" is a quote from the article. BUC (talk) 09:57, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Then it should be in quotes and cited to the article. black ngold29 16:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - The citation needs to be at the end of that sentence. Even if it means having the same citation after consecutive sentences. black ngold29 18:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
~~"Eldred came in to relieve Morris, after a mediocre performance, in the fifth inning." Again, mediocre according to who?~~
~~"had combined for just one hit in 22 at-bats" I hate the word "just", say ""had combined for one hit in 22 at-bats". Basically the same affect, no POV.~~
~~In Game 3, "...and the inning ended as a result." Not technically wrong, but you don't really have to say "as a result". Even stating "...score from third, ending the inning".~~
~~"Suppan suddenly stopped halfway towards home." adverbs bad, "suddenly" isn't necessary unless it's vital to the situation.~~
- To say "stopped abruptly" is basically the same thing as "suddenly stopped" why do you need the adverb? Unless it's a quote from an article.
  - Well the article says "suddenly stopped halfway". BUC (talk) 17:51, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - Then put it in quotes and cite it to the article. We can't just copy and paste other articles without giving them credit. black ngold29 18:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
~~In Game 4, "Bonds and Ramírez also received", why the "also"?~~
~~Cardinals should be Cardinals'~~
- What, every single one? BUC (talk) 10:20, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, heh, I must be seeing things. I thought one was there, must've read it wrong. black ngold29 16:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
~~"17 consecutive post-season" nbsp~~
~~"3,000 Red Sox fans" nbsp~~ black ngold29 22:38, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
~~Is there a reason "Fenway Park in Boston, Massachusetts" and "Busch Stadium (II) in St. Louis, Missouri" are linked for every game? I think linking the first time would be fine.~~
~~"Boston Red Sox" and "St. Louis Cardinals" don't need linked again in the Statistics section.~~
~~I missed this the first time "President, George W. Bush" in the Aftermath section doesn't need a comma.~~ black ngold29 16:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Think I've done everything now. BUC (talk) 19:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Prose looks good. I won't support due to the logo, but the hard part is done. black ngold29 20:28, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Would you support it now? BUC (talk) 21:08, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Yep, and I will keep an eye out for any pictures from the games. Good work! black ngold29 21:21, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

SupportOppose, File:MLBWS2004.png fails WP:NFCC#8 as removing it would not affect readers' understanding of the article. Stifle (talk) 12:00, 5 October 2009 (UTC) as the image has been properly removed and deleted; no further issues. Stifle (talk) 08:24, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, the logo is inherently part of the subject. Basically every other modern sporting event FA has the logo as the lead image for exactly that reason. Is File:General Electric logo.svg an unneeded image for General Electric? No. The logo is a part of the subject. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:12, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

People seem very split on this so I'm not willing to change it at present, it was dicussed at length before the nomination was restarted before coming to the conclusion that it wasn't something that should effect it becoming a FA. BUC (talk) 19:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image removed. I didn't care one way or the other, but talks stagnated. Wizardman 16:57, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So did you just delete it without even discussing it. I don't like that, there was no clear consensus either way, you should have just commented on the talk page is there anyway to get it back? If not please File:2004 WorldSeries Trophy.jpg,as it's a more neutral image. BUC (talk) 17:52, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So I should've just written "Neutral: I can see both sides"? We both know that would've contributed nothing. I'm trying to help you get this an FA through the realization that that discussion wasn't going anywhere. Besides, if consensus leaned anywhere it was to delete. Wizardman 18:24, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks but I don't want a "quick fix", if the nomination fails I don't mind, I'd rarther reslove this properly. There was no clear consensus yet. The discussion had not yet ended. Please bring back the image and wait for the discussion to end.BUC (talk) 19:26, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – Read the page again and found a few issues, though some improvements have been made since I last commented. Still get the sense that the article could use a little polishing, but it's not bad.

Route to the series: "when Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter made a catch on the run before hurling himself head first into the stands." Hyphen for "head first"?
"Varitek pushed his glove into Rodriguez' face causing a bench-clearing brawl." Comma needed before "causing".
In describing Game 7 of the ALCS, you could mention the Johnny Damon grand slam, since that was the pivotal moment (not one I like to remember, but whatever).
- Game 7 wasn't as eventful as some of the other game in the series so I've left it out. BUC (talk) 06:18, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"during which they each hit more than 30 home runs and 100 runs batted in". You can't hit a run batted in. Change "hit" to something else.
- You can't? BUC (talk) 06:18, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"which meant the Red Sox had the advantage at Fenway Park." I remember commenting on this before, but the home team always has an advantage at its stadium. I think you mean they hosted four of the seven games, and that was the advantage. It would be better to just say it like that.
Game 2: "and two more singles by Johnny Damon and Orlando Cabrera, enabled two more runs to score to make it 6–1." Take the comma out.
Game 3: "After the next batter Albert Pujols was thrown out by Mueller, the inning ended." Comma before and after Pujols' name. Giants2008 (17–14) 23:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~Important~~

~~I've put the logo removal debate up for a simple vote on the talk page here. BUC (talk) 15:40, 7 October 2009 (UTC)~~[reply]

Status? Ten days, no feedback ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I really need more people to give feedback on what to do about the logo. Otherwise I'm pretty sure I've addressed all feedback given here.
  - Issue with the logo now sorted. I wasn't happy with the way it was deleated but it's gone now nonetheless. BUC (talk) 15:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. On the whole, very well written. Nice. A few over-large paras, though.

Pity the image of the trophy is compromised by the background fence. :-(
"With the New England Patriots' victory in the Super Bowl eight months before, it also made Boston the first city to have" -> "Coming eight months after the New England Patriots' victory in the Super Bowl, the event made Boston the first city to have". Or the start as now, and ", Boston became ..". No "also".
Remove "of them"?
Watch the use of team names to start sentence after sentence in the lead. Couple of times it became obvious to me.
- Not sure what the problem is. BUC (talk) 08:46, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Caption: "then-career-high" ... any way of recasting? Apart from the grammatical awkwardness, it fails to wrap on my window width. "hit 46 h r, then a c h."?
You really want those Easter-egg links that readers will probably ignore? The way to fix them is to unlink in the body of the text (or work one into the grammar of a sentence in a way that doesn't hide the target with a plain year), and put the rest in the "See also" section, unpiped, i.e., explicit. Get more hits that way. It's necessarily fairly densely linked already.
- Not sure what the problem is here. BUC (talk) 09:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Walker also hit the ball towards Ramírez in the next ..."—there's a good use of "also".
Pet hate: "his second error in as many plays". It's longer than "in two plays", and the back-reference is to a different grammatical element. Should be cleansed from the language.
Game 2: there's a single line trapped above the table (Game 3, too ... why?). I can't work out the bolding in the table.
- That's the game's date and location. BUC (talk) 14:24, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Schilling image: could it be a little larger? Was he fat? Victory parade and last pics: tiny. Please note the new guidelines on image size. It's no longer treated as a sin to enlarge images (240px is often good, but it depends).
No metric conversion ok here? I don't know the WP convention in this context.
Bottom: dash then numeral I took to be a minus sign wrongly spaced. (–9) Tony (talk) 12:27, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.