Zynthetik

October 2021

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• The following is the log entry regarding this message: Bolton was changed by Zynthetik (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.913263 on 2021-10-25T23:26:49+00:00

Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 23:26, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit you made to Salford City F.C., did not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use your sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 22:54, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Your edits

Why are you changing the leads on all Greater Manchester articles? Your ruining them with silly and non constructive changes. DragonofBatley (talk) 19:52, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Not all of them by a long way! They're factual and constructive changes that better reflect the real-life identity of some places. Regards. Zynthetik (talk) 19:56, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

No they are not. Stretford isn't an inner city area of Manchester that's a false claim. Just because it's across the river doesn't make it an area of Manchester. Same with Swinton Failsworth and Prestwich. You need to be very careful with claims like that given they are in under different unitary authorities and Manchester is also a unitary authority which has no say in the day to day lives of residents of Swinton or Prestwich even Stretford. So it's not factual it's of your own opinion which is not factual and by far unconstructive. Anyway head over to the Wiki geography page and discuss it there. Some of your edits are very questionable DragonofBatley (talk) 20:03, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm very careful to distinguish the use of the term 'Manchester' and 'Greater Manchester'. There's a big difference! However, a place can be a suburb OF a bigger place (especially if it's contiguous), even though IN a different local authority. Zynthetik (talk) 20:09, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

The place you mention are ABSOLUTELY suburbs of Manchester!!! "Human settlement in England" is just bland, clinical, non-descriptive and unhelpful. Zynthetik (talk) 20:16, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

If that was the case people would be calling Wakefield Bradford Huddersfield Dewsbury and Halifax suburbs of Leeds because of the huge conurbation but they are not as they are all their own distinct towns with other towns and villages not being called suburbs. What makes your edits of Swinton Failsworth and Prestwich even Stretford and Urmston different? Swinton is not even an inner city area of Manchester. It's an inner city area of Salford another city which has been city longer then Manchester. You'll be calling Salford an inner city area of Manchester no doubt. Also regardless of their conurbation or closeness. Each of these towns are distinguished by having town halls and town councils. Which they do. You cannot call Stretford an inner city area of Manchester when it is not one officially. It doesn't matter if you see it as one. Other people will not without reliable sources. Your claims are not factual they are your own take and opinion which is not what Wikipedia uses. Also they have been towns for longer then Manchester has been a city so there is no sources to back your arguments. Local knowledge or living there is not factual. And GM is a newer county being only created in 1974 by the borders changing movings parts of Cheshire Lancashire and West Riding of Yorkshire into it. All the large towns were pretty much county boroughs and their towns belong to the unitary authority they belong to. Not a suburb of Manchester unless it's officially under Manchester. Salford has suburbs and towns and villages. It's a big difference to use suburb of Manchester and a town in the borough of. The town is in a borough. It's in the lead. Not Prestwich is a suburb of Manchester in the metropolitan borough of Bury for example. That doesn't work. A town in the metropolitan borough of Bury does work. Then it's geographic tabs can be used to say it is contiguous with Manchester. It work better. DragonofBatley (talk) 20:23, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Also human settlement in England isn't bland. It's informative distingues places from others. That's widely accepted on wiki and your objection won't change that. Anyway again head over to the WP Wiki geography page and take your issues with the use of it there. They'll tell you why it's used DragonofBatley (talk) 20:27, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm well aware of the history of county boroughs etc etc etc. All irrelevant now. All these places are MANCHESTER in address and that does make a difference. No comparison to West Yorks. If I'd tried to put Oldham or Bolton as suburbs, your reasoning would make sense. You seem overly obsessed with local authority areas/councils. That is not what people always identity with. Someone researching Prestwich might easily be confused with it being bundled with Bury. As a suburb OF (not IN) Manchester, they might get a more accurate feeling for the place. Zynthetik (talk) 20:36, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

But that's your assumption. Without factual proof. Your saying it will inform people but will likely confuse someone calling Swinton a suburb of Manchester in the city of Salford. That is confusing because both Manchester and Salford are cities. So Swinton would be a town in the city of Salford where Salford city council are based. Prestwich is a town of its own in Bury. A suburb of Manchester in the metropolitan borough of Bury. Yet bury is a town. So that's confusing. Stretford is a town in Trafford which is a Borough. A suburb of Manchester makes zero sense. Why can't you just with all due respect leave them as they are? You changing them will bring up discussions on why they have been changed. Suburb is also a very debatable word means area district etc. Again you really should be asking for a concensus before making major changes to long established articles on wiki. Your edits will be reverted if they change the whole meaning of an article and it's lead. Expect debate to be had with edits I've had my fair share take it from me. Your better off asking for a concensus then changing it on a whim DragonofBatley (talk) 20:43, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

OK. Let's start off with the basics.

Instead of (the IMHO awful) Human Settlement in England, what about Urban/Suburban area in Greater Manchester?

PS. (Yes, yes, this is my opinion and I would never put this on Wikipedia!) Salford is not really a city. The city centre is Manchester, the postcode is Manchester and the dialling code is Manchester. Even the university brands itself as Manchester! Compare Leeds vs. Bradford Zynthetik (talk) 20:53, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

I could suggest to you to keep it "lore" friendly. Using suburban town might be a better way of doing it. If it has a town council suburban town. If it is a village suburban village and if an area. Then area of. That would work better because urban area would normally refer to multiple settlements in one area. But you know I'm sure you can understand why I'm engaging with you here. I've had to reach concensus with editors before. One major example is Penkridge in Staffordshire. For years it was called a market town but after I delved into deep research nowhere could I find a town status given to the village and so I called it a village. It got referred back to market town twice then after carefully research. I found on the official Staffordshire site and parish council site. It was called a village. Only a now-called village named Brewood had a market charter and became a market town. Now a village but an ancient market town. That was using history to provide accuracy a bit like with Malpas and Tuxford being historic market towns. DragonofBatley (talk) 21:02, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

• @DragonofBatley: asked me to chip in. I am not familiar with the Greater Manchester area, although my great-grandfather was an alderman of Salford, but will offer a few comments:

• "Silly" is usually not a helpful word to use in discussion with serious editors: keep it for describing childish vandalism

• A long debate like this might be better at the Greater Manchester project talk page, to attract other views from local experts.
• Between you, you seem to have left Stretford with no short description.
• Short description is to identify the article ("Is this the article I want?"), so "Town in Greater Manchester, England" is optimal - locates both to UK and within it. "Human settlement in England" or "Suburb of Manchester" are less useful. ("Is that the part of London?", "Which Manchester?")
• Trafford council website has a development plan for Stretford town centre. For me, that makes it a "town". (But then, I think Barton, Cumbria - a church, a farm, a couple of cottages- is a hamlet not a village).
• I have my doubts about using "market town" in the lead for parts of major conurbations, despite their history, because to me it means a self contained town in rural area.
• Enough. I don't intend any more involvement in your disagreement here, though might chip in to rescue mangled articles as ever. PamD 07:17, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Unconstructive editing

I noticed several unconstructive edits on my watchlist on Stockport and the Heatons which I have reverted. Before you continue describing every district in Greater Manchester as being a suburb of Manchester you ought to read Wikipedia:WikiProject_UK_geography/How_to_write_about_settlements#Lead which explains how articles on places should start. For your information postcodes and telephone numbers are not relevant when describing the geographic location. Esemgee (talk) 08:58, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Likewise for Eccles, Greater Manchester. Stick to formal geographies please. Dave.Dunford (talk) 18:44, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.DragonofBatley (talk) 13:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Discuss there DragonofBatley (talk) 13:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

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