StarTrekInfo60

Hi StarTrekInfo60,

I really like the fact we're almost working together to make the much underrated Bill Shirley's Wikipedia page so detailed and informative. I'd love to know where you've found all the great extra information you've added recently, especially about his early life,as I couldn't find much out there and the info you've found & uploaded was brilliant.

Thanks

PB49230 :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by PB49230 (talk • contribs) 00:09, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi, PB49230.

Thank you! :) The answer is: long and hard research! Well, about two years ago in 2011 was when I started looking for information on him and his films. I really couldn't really find much about him at all, hardly even pictures. I did find the "Jeanie" film online, and I watched it. Then I had an epiphany: why not look him up in online newspaper archives? So I did! Back then, newspaperarhive.com let you read 3 articles a day for free. So over time I copied some articles on paper, and other times I printed them out if there was a picture attached. But even when you read the old newspapers you have to be careful, because, of course, they don't always have their facts straight. For example, some newspapers reported that Bill dated Debbie Reynolds, but it wasn't him. They had him confused with Eddie Fisher. And you can look him up on other newspaper archives online, too. Just Google these words (no quote marks): 'newspaper archives free' and then you will see that people have collected them on websites, divided by state. It's pretty cool! But watch out, it can be frustrating, and some "pay" websites are snuck in there. Also try Google Books, and Google's archive of old newspapers. Just go to Google, type in his quoted name and then type 'site:news.google.com', and you'll get there. It's also helpful to Google 'site:newspapers.com' and type in his name in quotation marks. And you can go to the Media History Lantern, and on eBay. But remember to always go to any 'advanced search' functions you find, and type his name as "Bill Shirley" in quote marks for more relevance. Sometimes even "William" or "Billy" or "Billy J" work, too, as long as the surname "Shirley" follows. But take the results you find with a grain of salt, because his name is a LOT more common than you'd think! If you want to ask questions or see pictures or read articles that I have in my "collection", just ask, and I'll direct you to the links. :) I've been researching Bill since 2011, and I'm still learning new things almost every day. :)

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Robert Todd Lincoln

Maybe all your changes to this article are from reliable sources but since you haven't always provided them - as I asked you to after your initial set of changes - how are Wikipedia's readers or your fellow editors supposed to know? A cornerstone of Wikipedia, one of its main guidelines is Verifiability, we all have to be able to verify the information that appears within Wikipedia. Maybe your experts are indeed completely correct about Robert's good relationship with his father but where are the specific cited sources that back up your statements? You have instituted sweeping changes in long-standing content and clearly-cited sources just need to be provided for your edits. That's all.
Also. I posted on the article's talk page about your changes after my revert, you then changed the article back to your preferred version without any response to my talk page post. That's kind of bad form don't you think? It would have been respectful to respond to my talk page post first and we could have actually discussed the issue and come to an editorial consensus together. We can still do that with this content. And that's the way it should work around here. Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 01:32, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

References you added to Robert Todd Lincoln...

You added several references to this article that seem to have been taken straight from the footnoted/references out of Giant in the Shadows: The Life of Robert T. Lincoln (by Jason Emerson). An editor using references that they haven't seen themselves is against Wikipedia content guidelines - you have to say where you got it, meaning:

"Say where you read it" follows the practice in academic writing of citing sources directly only if you have read the source yourself. If your knowledge of the source is secondhand—that is, if you have read Jones (2010), who cited Smith (2009), and you want to use what Smith (2009) said—make clear that your knowledge of Smith is based on your reading of Jones.

When citing the source, write the following (this formatting is just an example):

John Smith (2009). Name of Book I Haven't Seen, Cambridge University Press, p. 99, cited in Paul Jones (2010). Name of Encyclopedia I Have Seen, Oxford University Press, p. 29.

Or if you are using short citations:

Smith (2009), p. 99, cited in Jones (2010), p. 29.

I am in the process of fixing these refs, I wanted you to be aware of the issue. Shearonink (talk) 18:56, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

I was able to find other cites/refs for these various letters, usually straight to published copies so that fixes all the "RTL to" cites. Shearonink (talk) 05:06, 27 December 2022 (UTC)