User talk:Shady59/Archive 2

Kochi

So I know what to do. First of all I told my points. 33 village panchayaths are neither a part of the city nor the urban area. So 732 km cannot be allowed. Wikipedia is not a place to put inflated figures.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 10:37, 17 July 2017 (UTC) 

@Samforprospe: Guess you are new to Wikipedia. Check out all city articles on Wiki and you can see the city & metro areas separately. Check out the Mumbai page which is a WP:GA. The Metro area is given as 4,355 km2 which includes 9 corporations including Thane and Panvel. Are these part of Mumbai city? Check out the Chennai page. the metro area is given as 1,189 km2 which includes Kancheepuram, Tiruvallur & Velloor. Are these part of Chennai city? And who is demographia.com & what gives them the authority to dictate city demographics? We have the citation from the official website of GCDA and you're replacing that with some thirdparty source? From your profile, I see that you've been warned several times by other users for vandalism and this is gonna be my final warning before reporting you. Shady59 (talk) 11:27, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

You cannot give 33 panchayaths to kochi and say this is the urban area. Show me where its mentioned that kochi urban area is 732 sq km. Then I will accept it. Not your village panchayaths. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 11:53, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

@Samforprospe: Dude. Noone needs your approval. I don't know what you meant by urban area, but the metro area is defined by the government and the city administration, in this case GCDA. The official stats are given in the GCDA official website as well as the KMRL official site. And if you have any problem with it, start a topic in the city talk page instead of vandalising. Ask in the Chennai talk page, how Kancheepuram & Tiruvallur are part of Chennai urban area. Or ask the Kozhikode talk page, how these areas are part of Kozhikode urban area. It's not us who decide. Shady59 (talk) 12:07, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Who are you to warn me man. Your 33 villages cant be accepted as urban area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 12:00, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Look mate I dont have a problem with the right figures being given in any area. But you are trying to inflate the figures. GCDF is not cochin corporation. They are a developemnt agency. Show me a single reference from cochin corporation, then I myself will put those figures in the correct manner. I dont know much about the other two cities you mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 12:11, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

@Samforprospe: Dude, Cochin corporation only oversees the corporation area which is only 90 sq.km. GCDA is the statutory body that oversees the urban agglomeration. And it's not a development agency. It's a body of Government of Kerala and it's them who decide the area. Shady59 (talk) 12:18, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Show me any refernce where anyone states that kochi urban area is 732 sq km. GCDF just do development works in 732 sq km. thats all. It doesnt means that kochi urban area is 732 sq km. The problem is with the 33 villages. 5 muncipalities can be considered as an urban area, but not the villages. You show the correct reference in which it is mentioned that the urban area is 732 sq km. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 12:21, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

@Samforprospe: So your problem is that some of the areas included are officially village panchayats. You need to understand that places like Maradu, Kakkanad etc were also village Panchayats 5 years back. So would you have told then that they shouldn't be allowed to be part of the Kochi metro area? As I told earlier, check out pages of Mumbai, Chennai, Kozhikode or any city for that mater and see the areas included in the metro region. And this will be your final warning. WP:EW is not encouraged and you've already past the WP:3RR. Shady59 (talk) 12:28, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I told you to show the reference that shows the urban area is 732 sq km, the I will put it as 732, orelse I know what to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 12:30, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I searched about the so called village panchayaths. They are still village panchayaths and not the part of muncipalities. Village panchayaths officially cannot be part of a metro urban area. mumbai and Chennai are Tire 1 big metros. Cochin is a small one. The entire district is only close to 3000sq km. You can put all those panchayaths and say cochin urban area is 3000 sq km. It doesnt make any sense. Dont know much about kozhikode. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 12:36, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

@Samforprospe: As I told earlier, places like Maradu, Kakkanad etc were also village Panchayats 5 years back. So would you have told then that they shouldn't be allowed to be part of the Kochi metro area? Don't take Mumbai & Chennai. Take Kozhikode for example & check the metro area & regions included in it. Chennai metro area even includes other districts, so would you ask them they aren't even the same district, so why they're included in the Chennai metro area? And noone did put the whole district nor did anyone tell that Cochin urban area is 3000 sq.km. Only the official area by the statutory body is included. Shady59 (talk) 12:42, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

You know what will be the end of edit war. The admin will make it the default version before any of our edits. Means cochin will be only shown as 94.88 sq km. I know thats bad. So it will be a wrong information to an amateure who looks at cochin and thinks that its only 94.88 sq km. So its better to put an estimate as 440 km from demographia as of now. I am also going to find some reference about the correct urban area from the government or corporation statistics and then we can use that. Anyway as of now 440 is much acceptable figure. 732 seems like an inflated figure to me because of the village panchayaths. It can be accepted if cochin corporation or any governments officially declares it. Then i will put it as 732 or any figure which they says. It doesn't matter if it is 1500 sq km. they have to say it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 12:45, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I have checked the kozhikode urban area. They havent included any village panchayaths. Their urban area is from the corporation and the 5 muncipalities. No village panchayaths are included in their urban area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 12:50, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

@Samforprospe: Demographia.com is not a credible source. And I don't know with what authority you're saying as if you would put it as 732. As I told earlier, Cochin Corporation oversees only the 90 sq.km of corporation area & has nothing to do with the UA as a whole. GCDA is the government body that oversees the UA. And we have the stats from their official website. Seems like you're deliberately missing this point which I already told several times. We also have the citation from KMRL official website.. And can you show me where it's written as village panchayats cannot be included in metro area? And you checked & confirmed the Kozhikode urbam area? Really? Check again(Kozhikode Metropolitan Area) and see how many panchayats are included in it. Majority are village panchayats. Shady59 (talk) 13:00, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Mate kozhikode urban area consists of 1 corporation and 5 municipalities. It is said in there itself. there are lots of small towns which are part of either those municipalities or corporation. If they include those village panchayaths. then it cannot be considered as the part of urban area. As of now we only have demographia figures as the source which states the urban area is 440 sq km. The cochin corporation or district or any government agency anywhere never states that cochin urban area is 732 sq km. It should say that cochin urban area is 732 sq km. then we can accept it without looking further. i am still searching for it and if I find it then I will update it. The reference you have shown here says GCDF administrates 732 sq km and not the kochin urban area is 732 sq km. if it states so, then we can acceot it. Show any good reference in which it says cochin urban area is 732 sq km. I cant even find how much is kozhikode urban area. It never says anything about it. So demographia is the only source which states that urban area is 440 sq km. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 13:10, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Show the reference of cochin metro area in any government websites. Show any reference which states it is 732 or any amount, then make it like it. We only have a population census. the area cannot be found for both cochin and kozhikde. Demographia is a world renowned organization and it is not a bad source. you should look at demographia and see that they themselves says that they are getting the data from the respective governments. You cannot call it wrong. Its the most updated figure that we can get. You have to put a reference in which its states that cochin metropolitan area or urban area is 732 sq km. then its ok. GCDF says we administrates those areas, it never said that cochin metropolitan area is 732 sq km. If they are adminstrating those panchayaths, then they can add more panchayaths to it or they can remove any. It doesnt means that cochin urban area is 732 sq km which gcdf administrates.

Mate I cant understand why the GCDA website is not working. Whats the problem. Cant get any further information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 13:29, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Greater Cochin Development Authority (GCDA) is the statutory body overseeing the development of the City of Kochi in the state of Kerala, India. Technically, GCDA oversees the development of the major part of Greater Cochin area which consists of the Cochin Corporation, 9[1] surrounding municipalities (Thrippunithura, Thrikkakara, Aluva, Kalamassery, Maradu, Eloor, North Paravur, Angamaly, Piravom and Perumbavoor) and 25[1] intervening panchayats ((Chellanam, Kumbalangi, Cheranelloor, Varappuzha, Chennamangalam, Kadamakkudy , Kadungalloor, Alengad, Chengamanad, Nedumbassery, Chottanikkara, Choornikkara, Edathala, Kumbalam, Kottuvally and others) covering an area of 632 km2.[1] This has a population of 2,589,038 (2001 census).This is what I got from wiki. Clearly as of 2001 itself they are looking beyond the cochin urban area which has only a apopulation of 2.1 million.

As per 2001 census cochin urban area has a population of 2,119,724. But the GCDA is looking after the extra villages which is not a part of cochin urban area and the population which GCDA is looking after is 2589038. This clearly shows that GCDA is looking much beyond the cochin urban area which is 440 sq km as per the latest demographia report. This is all as per 2001 census. The website is not working. Hope they will make it clear and then we can update everything.

@Samforprospe: As you told above Kozhikode metro area is not just 1 corporation and 5 municipalities. It's got many vilage panchayats such as Villiappally, Valayam, Thurayur, Ulliyeri, Perumanna, Thazhecode etc to name few of them. And who told you that it cannot be considered urban area if they include those village pachayats. Well, they have included those panchayats & they are also part of the Kozhikode metro area. Similarly the Kollam Metro Area includes many panchayats such as Vadakkumthala, Oachira, Perinad, Meenad etc. It's the government & the city administration that dictates the metro area & decides what to include & what not. By the by the GCDA website is down for the moment. Maybe temporary issue. It's a Govt. website afterall. Shady59 (talk) 15:43, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

@Samforprospe: And FYI, The Chenai metro area contains 179 panchayats. With your logic, I would like you to see argue on the talk page of Chennai and say that the Metro area 1,189 sq.km given on the page is inflated & they are not supposed to include the 179 village panchayats. Let's see how your argument work there. Shady59 (talk) 15:46, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Look here mate. GCDA is administrating much more panchayaths than the cochin urban area. As per 2001 census GCDA is administrating a population of almost 2,589,038. In 2001 that is the same year, the census of cochin urban area clearly shows the population of 2,119,724. What does that mean. It means GCDA administrates much more area than the cochin urban area. I have said this clearly before. please read it. Its quiet clear that GCDA administrates more area than cohchin urban area. So cochin urban area is smaller than the area administrated by gcda. As of now we cant get the real area of cochin urban region. We only have a population census. The only reliable source that's showing it is demographia. I told you before that if any agencies, that's the government or districts publish an information regarding this, then we can update it with much more reliable source. Kerala governemnt is preparing master plans for city and its urban area. Then most probably we can get a clear picture of it. Untill then let it remain like this, because its disputed. I dont have a doubt that GCDA adminstrates 732 sq km, they adminstrates much more village panchayaths than cochin urban area. Thats almost clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samforprospe (talk • contribs) 03:39, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

The story of Chennai is entirely different. Its a highly developed Tier 1 metro. The so called cities like cochin and calicut are small towns compared to that. I dont have any clear picture of this calicut urban area. They are also preparing a master plan for their city. Then only we can confirm everything regarding their things. As of now only reliable population census of both cochin and calicut is there. If we take this to wiki administrators, they most probably will remove the urban area because it is disputed. But if they go into deep, then they can understand that GCDA area is much bigger than cochin urban area. So most probably they will continue with the demographia figures. So as of now let the demographia figures remain. This is not the end of the World. Lots of data will come regarding everything and then we can update. Another problem is that the GCDA website is down. The information in wiki might be fetched when their website was working. I think GCDA most probably will fix their website and then we can take more details.

@Samforprospe: Dude, you have an entirely different and false notion about what a metro area is. The so called metro area isn't only the urban area. A metro region has one urban core and then surrounding areas. You think just because a metro area consists of panchayats, it cannot be called a metro area. You think metro area means only the urbanized region. Well, you're entirely wrong my friend. And how is the story of Chennai, entirely different? What difference does it make whether it's Tier-I or Tier-II, if your argument is that you cannot include panchayats in the metro region or a metro region means only the urban area? A metro area is determined by the government & city administration. It's not the public to decide that a metro area cannot include panchayats & so on. As per your favourite demographia.com, a metropolitan area will nearly always be larger than the urban area and Metropolitan areas include one or more urban areas, as well as satellite cities, towns and intervening rural areas. Shady59 (talk) 07:11, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Mate, I defined that earlier in my posts. I am telling it again. Kochi metro area has a population of around 2.1 million as per 2011 census. But the GCDA administrates a population of 2.6 million as per 2011. It clearly means they administrate more panchayaths outside kochi metro area. Look mate, its the government who takes the census and as per the government, in 2011 kochi metro area only has a population of 2.1 million. Demographia as per now is the only authoritative source which states the area of kochi urban region in sq km. You can check their earlier versions also. Demographia is used as the authoritative source in the entire World and even the wiki page that shows the urban areas around the World uses demographia as the source. They are pretty much accurate because they are getting the information from the respective governments. Please read the demographia report completely in which they refers the data to the respective governments. It even clearly states that they got the report from governemnt of India. They are not guessing the figures. The only source that can be more trustable will be from the governments itself. I cant see any government report stating the area of kochi metro region. We only have got a population census and that too of 2011. GCDA only states they administrates 732 sq km, and nowhere in the report says that kochi metro region is 732 sq km. They only says they administrates that much area. Even their website is not working. They are not that much responsible agency. They should at least maintain their website for us to clarify those things. If State or the central government gives us an area statistics, then it can supersede the demographia report. Otherwise every person in wiki will agree to the demographia report cause of the credibility of that agency.