User talk:Paul730/Sandbox 4

Sources to use

• Bale is John Connor
• Heroes Star Set to Play John Connor
• Nick Stahl Is T3's Connor
• Shane West as John Connor?

Film layout

Should it be one "big meaty section" for the Cameron films, or as they're currently three films out, could they not have a medium-sized paragprah each? Maybe when the McG film comes out, we can have them divided into Cameron and Catwomanwriter/McG, but that pargraph looks distractingly ... large. Or perhaps the Terminator 1 recapping can be condensed, so it's essentially context for a T2 paragraph? ~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 01:18, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

If you want to condense the T1 info, be my guest, I agree it is overly long for a film in which he doesn't even appear onscreen. However, we need the article to make sense, and T1 explains a lot about who he is etc etc. As for the sections, I thought we could have:

• The Cameron movies (T1&2)
• The Mostow movie (T3)
• The new trilogy... (T4,5,6)

...since they're all kinda separate storyarcs or whatever? Kinda like how the Michael Myers divides the movies into little storyarcs (Laurie films/Jamie films/Post-retcon films/Remake). Feel free to disagree... :)  Paul  730 15:26, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that does make sense, but with 4, 5 and 6 not out yet we'd have to take a layout which suites 1, 2 and 3 as they are now, I think. I really like the Michael Myers layout, possibly because it allows you to interpret the character history effectively not as if he were this consistent fictional character, but rather one that different films have interpreted in entirely different ways. The more I read about H4, 5 and 6, the less I wanna see them.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 18:44, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Let's keep the films seperate as we're working on them, just to be tidy, and then we can find out what looks good when we're done. What I've written so far is a little rough, it needs polished anyway. I do think we should keep the Camerons and T3 separate, especially since Sarah Connor Chronicles follows a different timeline which ignores T3... I think you implied that too? I actually liked H4 & 5 when I first saw them, but I never liked 6... the whole Thorn cult was just too far fetched, it took the series out of the Halloween universe that I knew. The only redeeming feature about 6 to me is Tommy Doyle. He was cool.  Paul  730 21:01, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

T2: 3D

How about the heading "Live" or "Other"? It seems a bit ... too kind, to give it its own section. Maybe we can tack it onto the end of the thing about T-2? ~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 19:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Lol, "too kind". It's in it's own medium, and I wasn't sure what to call it. I thought about "theme park attraction" but that sounded a bit random. Hmm, I don't know, it's fairly distinct from T2, despite it's title, and it's not really a film. Let's see what we can find about it, I'm not even sure if it's got much of a story. Maybe an "In pop culture" section with the video games (is John even in the games?).  Paul  730 21:01, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

For some reason Terminator the Game sounds rubbish. Maybe if it was Lego Terminator or something it would be cool.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 22:28, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

What game? There's a few... I think they have potential, but like most tie-in shit the makers just don't bother cos they know it'll sell. BTW, I just finished watching the first two movies - sooooo good. :D I'd forgotten how much I love Kyle, he's so battle-hardened and cynical, but he's still a virgin and hasn't seen a tree before, and doesn't know what a hot dog is. He's vulnerable and endearing. Everyone always says the scene where the Terminator takes the police station, but for me the best scene in that movie is when Kyle tells Sarah he's in love with her. Gets me all teared up. :)  Paul  730 00:17, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

First appearance

Should T2 be mentioned, as his first on-screen appearance? ~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 21:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmmmmmm. Yeah... the appearances sections can explain the offscreen/onscreen weirdness, but his first appearance is still technically T2.  Paul  730 21:52, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I meant in the infobox.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 20:51, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Me too; the infobox should list T2 as his first appearance with the Appearances section discussing his pseudo-appearance in T1.  Paul  730 22:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

We should list both then: his first film appearance plus his first actual appearance in the franchise in the comics. Alientraveller (talk) 22:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Did he appear in comics released before T2? Hmm... that complicates things even more. I don't want the infobox to turn into a list of appearances and sort-of-appearances and appearances-in-other-media; infoboxes should remain simple. I'm conflicted now.  Paul  730 22:46, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I think we should disregard the comic appearance as a Terminator 1 Expanded Universe spin-off, and count from Terminator 2 as the first "official" one. We can note in the Literature section that strictly, a conceptualization of John DID appear there first, but we didn't see either adult or present John until T2.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 23:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Well that's unneutral to consider the printed adventures of Connor in 2029 a "conceptualization". Alientraveller (talk) 18:08, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Push

Ok guys, with Sarah Connor now on hiatus (possibly finished), and Salvation's release imminent, now would be a good time to give this article a big push towards GA/mainspace-level quality.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 17:49, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Links for self:

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&q=John+Connor+heroism&btnG=Search

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&q=John+Connor+Terminator++&btnG=Search

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&q=John+Connor+Terminator++masculinity&btnG=Search

http://books.google.co.uk/books?client=firefox-a&q=John+Connor+Terminator&btnG=Search+Books

~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 00:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey Zythe, good job on keeping this up-to-date, I know I haven't contributed much to it. I definitely think it's good enough for the mainspace, even though we've not got much OOU info, it's better than the existing page at any rate.  Paul  730 00:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

My main fear is that if we submit it to the mainspace with an air of being incomplete, it will rapidly devolve from casual editors "expanding it" and fiddling with the nitty-gritty details in the infobox and in the summaries.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 13:22, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I see you've found loads of good characterization info. Well done! :D  Paul  730 19:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, but as you can see it's all largely unsorted / disorganised. I also keep realising how much easier a Sarah Connor article might be (especially by her not appearing in T3). I imagine Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic would be alright starting to places to find sources (ie. reviews) which describe / assess the John Connor portrayals. Do you have any ideas about characterisation? Would that suppose a lot of DVD commentary viewership, special insider guides, as well as interview? If you (or Bignole or Alientraveller) have the Terminator DVDs, and could take the time to watch some of the special features so we could cite them, then we could probably get this article finished within the month.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 22:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

More links for tomorrow because I do need to close Firefox before bed:

http://sfx7.exlibrisgroup.com/oxford?sid=google&auinit=TB&aulast=Byers&atitle=Terminating+the+postmodern:+Masculinity+and+pomophobia&title=Modern+Fiction+Studies&volume=41&date=1995&spage=5&issn=0026-7724

http://sfx7.exlibrisgroup.com/oxford?sid=google&auinit=R&aulast=Hanke&atitle=Theorizing+masculinity+with/in+the+media&title=Communication+Theory%3B+CT%3B+New+York&volume=8&issue=2&date=1998&spage=183&issn=1050-3293

http://sfx7.exlibrisgroup.com/oxford?sid=google&auinit=JM&aulast=van+der+Laan&atitle=Machines+and+Human+Beings+in+the+Movies&title=Bulletin+of+science,+technology+%26+society&volume=26&issue=1&date=2006&spage=31&issn=0270-4676

http://www.usask.ca/relst/jrpc/art11-apocalypticimagination.html

http://www.usask.ca/relst/jrpc/art8-cinematicchrist.html

http://sfx7.exlibrisgroup.com/oxford?sid=google&auinit=NL&aulast=Friedman&atitle=The+Terminator:+Changes+in+critical+evaluations+of+cultural+productions&title=Journal+of+Popular+Culture&volume=28&issue=1&date=1994&spage=73&issn=0022-3840

http://sfx7.exlibrisgroup.com/oxford?sid=google&auinit=R&aulast=Boer&atitle=Christological+slippage+and+ideological+structures+in+Schwarzenegger%E2%80%99s+Terminator&title=Semeia&volume=69&issue=70&date=1995&spage=165&issn=0095-571X

http://www.unomaha.edu/jrf/cyborg.htm

~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 23:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I always wondered why you chose John over Sarah. She seems like the more iconic character. Not sure about characterisation info, but I do remember some casting info about Furlong being picked off the street because other child actors were too "theatre school". I'll hunt it down, and look for anything else.  Paul  730 03:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)