Matteo747

Regarding edits made during February 2 2007

It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from an article. Please be careful not to remove content from Wikipedia without a valid reason, which you should specify in the edit summary or on the article's talk page. Take a look at our welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Luna Santin 04:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I have no plans to block you. ;) You seem to be acting in good faith -- I can that your second edit removed some rather negative-sounding material (which is actually a good thing, see our verifiability policy). Likewise, all articles on Wikipedia are supposed to be written from what we call a neutral point of view (NPOV), and I'd say that your edit contributed to that (at least until we have sourcing). I spend most of my time on this wiki looking for vandals, and it's clear to me you're not one, so I'll stay off your back for now. :) Cheers! Luna Santin 05:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, welcome!

Welcome! Hello, Matteo747, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck or looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Help Desk, where experienced :Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user talk page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers: User pages The five pillars of Wikipedia Wikipedia in nine words How to edit a page (or, the quick cheatsheet version) Help pages Tutorial How to write a great article Manual of Style Glossary What Wikipedia is not Assume good faith Wikiquette Sandbox (this page is for testing) Your first article I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, or ask the people around you for help -- good Wikipedians don't bite the newcomers. Keep an open mind and listen for advice, but don't hesitate to be bold when editing! If you'd like to respond to this message, or ask any questions, feel free to leave a message at my talk page! Once you've become a more experienced Wikipedian, you may wish to take a moment to visit these pages: Wikipedia:Community portal Wikipedia:WikiProjects Best of luck to you, and happy editing! Luna Santin 10:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

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El Salvador

• It is your responsibility to provide sources for additions to articles. It is also your responsibility to write those additions well, in a way that does not violate neutrality policies. Don't re-add those additions until you handle those issues. JuJube 02:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I have again removed your edit to El Salvador since it violates our rules on not spamming commnercial sites on Wikipedia and maintaining a neutral point of view. While it would be useful to have a tourism section of the El Salvador article, you must write it from a neutral point of view, and commercial sites about tourism are not appropriate sources for that section. Thanks for understanding, Gwernol 02:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for trying to improve El Salvador with information about tourism. Unfortunately, the way you're going about it at present is not compatible with Wikipedia's policies on copyright, neutrality or style. For example, much of the information you've added is copied directly from other websites, which is a violation of copyright and thus illegal. If you wish to refer to external sites you should either cite them as references or add them to the External links section. Wikipedia should not contain original research or personal commentary - that is, things that you or someone else thinks about something (personal opinions) which can't be backed up with a reliable source. It is also not appropriate to write articles in the first person (e.g. "I found the volcanoes interesting").

Please consider re-writing your additions to the article according to what I've said above - we welcome your input but you must adhere to Wikipedia's policies or you will find that your changes keep getting reverted. If you continue re-inserting inappropriate material you will be violating the Three-revert rule and might be blocked from editing. Once again, thanks for trying to help out, but please make sure you do so in the right way. Happy editing, --YFB ¿ 02:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I just wanted to note that I think there's some really valuable stuff in the tourism section you're trying to write, but you need to keep personal commentary out of it. Even if you don't have the research done, any facts you have about the tourist attractions that could later be verified would be a decent start. Why not start with a short paragraph about the nature about the types of tourist attractions, and maybe just one or two pictures? I hate to say it, but no Tourism section at all is better than all of the personal commentary you had up there. Feeeshboy 04:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, look, I know you're trying to improve the article and all, but re-adding your work without any discussion whatsoever is not going to help you. Use the talk page to propose your "tourism" section, and raise the POV issues with other editors. But simply reverting the section back is disruptive, and can be considered vandalism if done repeatedly. So please stop. JuJube 21:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Some suggestions for the El Salvador tourism section

Hi,

Thanks for leaving a message on my talk page. I thought the easiest thing would be to take a look at the start of the section you were trying to add to see how it could be better cited and written from a neutral point of view:

El Salvador, unfortunately, has a very bad international reputation, mainly due to the war and the human rights atrocities that took place during that war, and has no intention of regressing.

http://www.puntamango.com/tours_cultural.asp

This opening sentence has a couple of issues. First it is your point of view that El Salvador has a "very bad international reputation" and has "no intention of regressing". Wikipedia articles should not express the opinions of the people who write them. If you want to write something like this, you must find a reliable source that says this. For example, if there was a New York Times article that talked about the reasons why El Salvador has a bad reputation as a tourist destination you could cite that article.

The website www.puntamango.com unfortunately cannot be cited. First it does not say that El Salvador has a bad reputation. The purpose of a citation is to tell the reader where you found the information you wrote so they can verify that it is true - they can go back and check your original source. Second, puntamango.com is not considered a reliable source because it has a commercial interest in selling tourism in El Salvador. This means it does not have a neutral point of view. Adding a website like this makes it look like you are trying to spam the Wikipedia article (I know you aren't). You need a reputable source that does not have an interest in promoting tourism.

You need to find articles written by well-regarded newspapers or scholarly papers like this one from Harvard university. Once you have sources like these, you can then summarize what they say into an article. Read up about how to WP:CITE the references you find.

Remember the point is to take existing reputable sources and summarize what they say, not just to find sources that agree with your personal point of view.

Good luck, Gwernol 12:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

You don't appear to have added the tourist section back since the above message. Is it possible that you did when not logged into this account? If so I can take a look and let you know how the section could be improved enough to make it into the article. Good luck, Gwernol 21:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

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El Salvador tourism section again

Okay, I assume you are talking about this version that you added earlier today when you weren't logged in?

If you are, then this version still has a number of problems:

• It shouldn't be the first section of the article. Generally history, geography and politics should come before tourism
• It is too long, being nearly half the page in length
• Most of it is still unreferenced. For example the opening paragraph has no references
• Most of it is still your personal point of view. For example sentences like "The people in El Salvador are known for being very friendly, and helpful". Who says this? You need a specific reference to an independent source that says this. You cannot just put your opinions about things into articles. Almost everything you have written suffers from this problem. Sentences like "Also, don’t believe everything you read about El Salvador on some web pages, El Salvador is an amazingly beautiful country, it has its problems, but nothing close to what some of these sites report." are obviously your personal opinion and are completely inappropriate for an encyclopedia article
• Most of the images are incorrectly licensed and appear to be copyrighted images copied from other websites. You cannot upload images you found on other websites, only images you took yourself
• There are way too many images and most of them aren't directly related to tourism in El Salvador, for example how is Image:Atardeser.jpg related to El Salvador? Is this even in El Salvador? Someone reading the article can't know

I think everyone would welcome a well-written section on tourism in El Salvador, but I'm afraid what you have tried to add so far isn't acceptable for Wikipedia. I suggest you take some time to read through our core policies on verifiability and maintaining a neutral point of view before trying again. Thanks, Gwernol 21:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Please do not make the mistake of ignoring what I have written above. If you continue to add the same Tourism setion to the El Salvador article without correcting its flaws, you will be blocked from editing. We do not allow personal opinions to be added to articles like that. Your work is still not properly sourced and very clearly is not written from a neutral point of view. I have given you some very specific advice, please follow it. I am happy to continue to help you, but if you ignore this advice I will block you to prevent damage to the article. Thanks, Gwernol 21:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

The others are right about your edits, but I wanted to add that I really hope you don't get discouraged by the resistance to your edits. Wikipedia editing can be a bit frustrating because at times it can seem like there are too many rules to ever learn, but if you take the advice of more experienced editors it will be a lot easier. The El Salvador page really would benefit from a tourism section, and some of the content you were trying to add would definitely be worth keeping. Here's what I suggest you do: start a "sandbox" page, which is your own personal page for experimenting and editing things so that you can show them to people, get some suggestions, and make the necessary changes yourself rather than watching your entire piece get deleted again and again. Post on the El Salvador talk page with a link to your sandbox so that other editors can look at it and comment, and when we're satisfied with it, then you can move the section into El Salvador. For reference, look at my sandbox page, which I've been using to try to piece together the best details from your tourism section edits (I haven't gotten very far yet, but I'm working on it). If you have any questions, please ask me. Thanks for your persistence and determination to contribute to Wikipedia. Feeeshboy 07:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

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El Salvador

• I don't know what you mean by "this is the only country that doesn't have a tourism section", but you really ought to talk things over on talk pages and such before adding stuff like this. In any case, a country that has recently come out of a civil war isn't exactly going to have a booming tourism trade. JuJube 05:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Actually, the only Central American country with a tourism section is Nicaragua, so I still don't know what you're talking about. I reiterate, if you want to put in a "Tourism" section, you talk about it on the article's talk page, not simply shove it in without even bothering to write it well. JuJube 05:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I see a section stating that the tourism section is "horrible", with generally unhelpful replies stating "Cut him a break, he's new". It would be more helpful if you posted there yourself. JuJube 05:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
      • And actually, now Nicaragua has no Tourism section either. JuJube 05:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

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Your posting at Wikipedia:Talk page

You posted a question to a page about policy in Wikipedia. Please do not post comments on pages where they do not belong.

The place to discuss an article is on its talk page. For example, if your changes to El Salvador are being deleted, discuss it at Talk:El Salvador. If you cannot get agreement on what you are proposing, read Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 04:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

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Central America

Just add you name to the project page and let them know you'd like to contribute. If you don't know how to do it, just tell me the page and I can do it for you. BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, odometer) 10:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I added you name to the participants list on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Central_America, have fun. BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, odometer) 11:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject El Salvador

Please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject El Salvador. Chris 22:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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