User talk:Kleinzach/Archive 19

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A noite do castelo

I read the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (operas) and it reads: The name of the opera should be in its original language. There is NO EXCEPTION for Brazilian Portuguese. This is not spanish, French nor Italian, while the title is spelled with capital letters in the original language. Please respect the original language spelling!
You have also over looked the rules under Operas: original language titles. Pease do not change the title to reflect the wrong spelling!KerrBr (talk) 08:19, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Please check Grove (Béhague, Gerard (1992), 'Gomes, Joao' in The New Grove Dictionary of Opera, ed. Stanley Sadie (London) ISBN 0-333-73432-7) and see the way it is capitalized there. WP doesn't capitalize foreign languages according to personal preferences but according to consistent editing styles. --Kleinzach 08:22, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick reply, Kleinzack! In regards to your comment, just above, please, see the discussion page for the article. I am not subscribing to my "personal preference" but to the conventional spelling system of a language. Thank you for your attention. KerrBr (talk) 23:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia uses a particular (not necessarily the only) style of capitalization based on Grove (and the other print encyclopedias). We must be consistent and follow established WP practices - not so-called conventions. Using different systems at random is bad practice. --Kleinzach 23:28, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Great Gatsby

If you read this article you will see that it has an admittedly brief section on the opera. Thisd is the only ref to the Gatsby article in wikipedia. Thanks Markhh (talk) 02:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

OK. Please go ahead and split off the opera from the novel. Then there will be no problem. I'd do it myself but the opera is obscure and I don't have the information. --Kleinzach 02:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC) P.S. The opera would be The Great Gatsby (opera). It's a redirect but you can use it. --Kleinzach 02:08, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Classical music

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I was using Huggle (an automated anti-vandalism tool) and I hit the wrong button for another article. When I tried to undo that article, your edit flashed up right before I hit the button and your edit got taken out. I immediately undid the edit, but apparently not fast enough..... My sincere apologies. Thingg 02:06, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

umm... actually, that was from someone else that I accidentally hit as well earlier. Again, I'm sorry about that mistake. I was not intentional. Thingg 02:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
hmmm... as far as I can see, I reverted all the damage I did. I don't know who removed other stuff, but I undid the one edit (a mistake) I made. Thingg 02:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
FYI Kleinzach, I don't know if you've looked at the talk and other contributions of the IP that added this to Classical music. Part of my reaction to him is because I smell a vandal at worst, and a somewhat contentious poor-English-speaker at best. In any event, I'm not going to re-revert his edit (or do anything else to the article) for the moment, but I'm really suspicious. Magicpiano (talk) 02:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
IMO his original contribution was poor but not vandalism. However his reversion of all my edits (cleanup tag, moving of navbox and deletion of timeline) on the other hand was vandalistic. --Kleinzach 03:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Please see the talk page for classical music. I have decided that my work is to academic for wikipedia. So you can remove it. (talk) 03:05, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Presentations.

Hello, Kleinzach, Thanks for your warm welcome. I have now seen your interests. You seem to be selective and eclectic in your choices. That’s great! Are you coming from a musician background?

In order to present myself, I would say that formerly in my life, I studied history of art and German at University of Geneva and was German teacher in high school. I know quite much about music: my murrain was Maria Stader. My father was a film director, Emil-Edwin Reinert. This page is dedicated for him. I need to explain that my page in English is in construction. Could you help me to signal it? Now I have chosen to evolve in the social field and do psychotherapy in loss and separation situations. Means I have little time… I work on [1] and [2] for small projects and since short time except the same page: [3] again in French! But each country has its rules. Sorry for my mistakes, it’s not my mother language.--Schnäggli (talk) 15:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. What is a 'murrain'? We don't have an 'under construction' tag for articles, because contributors are encouraged to prepare articles in a 'sandbox' - that is a userpage subpage. When the text is finished - or at least viable - we move to the article. I can make a sandbox for you if you like.
I'm trying to remember whether I've ever seen any of your father's films. Maybe not, unfortunately, but I'll look out for the name! P.S. My background is not really music, but I've had connections with the opera world for some time. Best. --Kleinzach 22:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Bot work

Sorry my response has taken so long. I'd be more than glad to get to work! You'll just have to remind me of the rules again, this is the stuff where there are templates to avoid correct? §hep¡Talk to me! 19:58, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

PS, I still can't remember what I was going to ask you. hmm §hep¡Talk to me! 19:58, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, maybe it's just because it's late.. but I'm a bit confused. (sorry) Do you want me to tag articles as stubs with only these tags or any tag in the whole wide wiki? §hep¡Talk to me! 03:13, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good. Should be able to start this weekend. §hep¡Talk to me! 19:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I did my best, and the tagging has began. What it has come down to is I scanned each article for the word "Stub", if it has stub in it it was tagged as "|class=stub|auto=yes" That means there are more than likely to be a handful of false positives, but nothing drastic by any means. I'll report here when the run is finished. §hep¡Talk to me! 20:41, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


I can't even count how many times I rad your message, because last time was so inricate. If it helps I double check the first 300 or so edits, then let it run by itself. I know what you mean about rogue bots. I had someone else do a run for WikiProject Ohio and spent over 16 hours reading each article it tagged, and usualy removing the tag. I know I removed over 500 tags atleast. As you know from last time I'm more than happy to do test runs and truly am sorry that I missed your request. §hep¡Talk to me! 23:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
PS, I'm out for the night. I have an exam tomorrow. §hep¡Talk to me! 23:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
If you have any complaints either let me know or direct them to me. It's no skin off my nose if they rant at me over something like tagging. I don't get the opposition though. You'd think that it would make their lives easier. oh well §hep¡Talk to me! 02:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Ya, I really should be. Glad to hear no prblems so far. §hep¡Talk to me! 02:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to your post, Kleinzach!

Thanks to your post, dear Kleinzach! First of all, thanks for your small contribution on my page. Murraine was a mistake. I mean my godmother was Maria Stader and told you this in order to explain my own musician past and my musical interests. I tried, but not very successfully to use your guidelines… and finished the filmography. Concerning the biography of my father, it will take much more time because like you I'm short of time and also didn’t yet finished the French biography. Now a have to concentred of my profession a will be in contact again with you - if God will - in a few months. Is my contribution quite ok, or could you correct my mistakes on my fist page on Wikipedia in English??? Tell me all that, please,--Schnäggli (talk) 14:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I've done a general edit of the article. In particular I've removed a lot of the red links, assuming you are not going to write articles on all of them! Perhaps you will be expanding the biography? Also more references would be helpful. I must see whether I can find any of the films. Which do you recommend? Best. --Kleinzach 22:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Composers assessments

I saw your note on my talk page. Say more about what you have in mind. (I'm watching here.) Magic♪piano 01:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to propose written rather than nominal assessments, see for example: Talk:Siegfried Wagner/Comments, Talk:Lohengrin (opera)/Comments, Talk:Tristan und Isolde/Comments.
When we did a test of the Wagner Project we found it best to work in a team of three (third person to decide if the first two disagreed), using a points system (see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Richard_Wagner/Assessment#Points_system_for_articles) - also that assessors should not be contributors to the articles they assess (that can be a disaster).
I won't do any assessments myself, but I'll give any necessary technical backing. How does that sound to you? P.S. Nice signature! --Kleinzach 05:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
One thing I should add: there is a summary of the current position of the Composers Project here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Composers/Assessment. The idea would be to move forward from that position, but not attempt more than would be practical. --Kleinzach 06:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
So what you're proposing is that I, as one of the reviewers, look at composer articles (in a generally-agreed timing and order, so that sets of articles are covered by the same reviewers over the same time interval), use the scoring (using the "Opera Directors" or "Opera Singers" tables from the Wagner project as a guide) to come up with an assessment, and then document the strengths/weaknesses on the comment page. Yes? I could help with that... Magic♪piano 16:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Great, first of all I will make a proposal to go ahead with this. I'll put it on the project page. I will suggest assessing B-class nominated articles. There are 56 of them so I think it's 'do-able'. (Articles above B-class are reviewed on a WP-wide level.) If there are no objections we'll be able to go ahead with it - and I hope get a couple more volunteers. --Kleinzach 01:21, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical guitar

Noticed that the classical guitar project has gone to sleep and that you had archived the page. Earlier, it had been discussed amongst the WP:GUITAR project that the classical guitar project be merged into our ranks and re-assigned as a task force. It was a suggestion that made sense but the ones who suggested it, along with myself, have been splintered as of late as far as Wikipedia goes. That project is dead. But perhaps may find life again if it were linked or re-directed to the much more active Guitarist project. I am not sure of the protocol involved with this. Or if it is even required and that a taskforce can just be created from scratch and the members (former) of the Classical guitar project who are still active on Wikipedia can be invited to join? Any thoughts or suggestions would be helpful. Thanks, cheers and take care! Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 01:15, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I'm delighted to help with whatever solution you like to suggest. Consolidating everything into one project would make sense. I've just marked Wikipedia:WikiProject Guitarists as inactive - but you can take this notice off if you are going to revive it. (One possibility might be to put a note on the the Music Project to tell people about what you are doing.) --Kleinzach 01:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I untagged it. One of the things about the Guitarist project is that many of the editors that have been involved right from the start, like me, tend to talk to one another directly rather than bring conversations to the project page. Which is not what we should do, obviously, but some of us are so familar with one another that we know just which person to pick on for support on certain articles. I update the project sub-pages every now and then. And I know people read them because they email me about certain parts. I know one thing. I am WAY overdue for a project newsletter. Lately my work has had me jumping around the globe so much I hardly know which airport I am in. But whenever I get planted back at home I always take a look around the project and its active members to see whats up. Cheers! Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 01:42, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I've also moved the merge tag from Classical Music to Guitarists. Pls remove that as and when you have set up a task force or whatever. Best. --Kleinzach 01:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Merci, Kleinzach

An immense thank you, dear Kleinzach, thanks to you, and so promptly, it looks really perfect!!! This is the famous international solidarity of the Wikipedia users that I feel by looking at the page of my father. Now I have to go on with my profession and in any case will be back on previous holidays. Of course, I will contact you, and tell me then if you little time again to correct and modify my text. By, by Kleinzach and by, by England… “See you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schnäggli (talkcontribs) 07:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Not at all - by the way, I'm in Japan . . . --Kleinzach 08:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Ziehrer response

Hello, Kleinzach. I would like to make articles out of the stubs, but my problem is that I can't find any information on them. I just wrote down whatever I could find -- not a lot, as you can see. So I guess that no, I won't (and can't) make articles out of them. Best regards! Tempodivalse (talk) 14:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Right. In that case, I think they could all be merged into one article. Would you like to do that? Alternatively you could put all the information on the Ziehrer page and make the stubs into redirects. We've done that before. Let me know if I can help with this. --Kleinzach 14:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


I don't see a change, the text was modified as requested, but it's definitely not the same as the composers banner. Sorry I have to make this quick, I'm at school. heh §hep¡Talk to me! 16:03, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean. (went to WP talkpage) I'm positive everything was approved by somebody before it was implemented. I kept it all in a sandbox until it was approved. Oh well, I'll make the changes and put it the edit request. Sometimes I don't know about myself.. §hep¡Talk to me! 16:06, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Guess not. Glad someone noticed it though. §hep¡Talk to me! 23:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Rate Your Music

I wasn't sure where the best place to put this was, it seemed like the best place to me since it's a music-related issue. However, albums might make more sense. Do you object to it being on Music? If so it can be moveed to Albums without a problem. The discussion has already started, though, so I'm not sure what the best thing to do at this point would be. bob rulz (talk) 11:17, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll bring it up on that talk page as well as there may be people who look at that but don't look above to the Music page. I don't think that any of the other sub-projects really needs it since songs aren't rated on that website. bob rulz (talk) 11:42, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

The Flying Dutchman

Manuscript of Der Fliegende Hollander in Wagner's handwriting, with notes to his publisher.

You asked me a couple of weeks ago about manuscript scores. A lot of things tug at my sleeve and sometimes it's difficult keeping up, so here's a glimpse. I call this sniffing for truffles. Was only able to find the first page in Wagner's own handwriting, but did come across a 37 page manuscript of the overture in John Philip Sousa's handwriting; Sousa did an arrangement in 1893. Have loaded it to Der_Fliegende_Hollander. DurovaCharge! 00:53, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I think it was someone else. Having the Wagner MS is great! The Sousa is a bit obscure. Does anyone use it now? Perhaps it can be used on the John Philip Sousa page - but not Wagner! Please note Der_Fliegende_Hollander should be Der fliegende Holländer. The adjective is not capitalized in German and there should be an umlaut.--Kleinzach 12:59, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the correction. I've sent you a welcome on Wikisource. Yes, the Sousa arrangement is a bit obscure--not something I'd use on Wagner's biography. Too bad it's just a bit too faded to make out the notes Wagner wrote to his printer; I'd love to translate that. :) BTW, if you're any good at Italian I've also found an obscure Paganini manuscript which, according to the bibliographic notes at the source, went unpublished during Paganini's lifetime. Interested? DurovaCharge! 17:44, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Paganini is not someone I know a lot about. How about posting something on the biography talk page? --Kleinzach 22:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


In looking for famous singers who have played Rhinemaidens, I came across a familiar name who had compiled a list of roles for one singer. I know about the Met database, but I get the impression that there may be a similar source for Vienna. If there is could you let me know how to access it. Alternatively could you supply a reference to it to confirm that Lotte Lehmann sang Wellgunde there and Elisabeth Schumann sang Woglinde. And Hamburg also seems to have a similar archive from what I saw about these singers.--Peter cohen (talk) 19:05, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Vienna had a repertory system so star singers regularly did minor parts - but I don't know of an online archive. Schumann did Woglinde and Wellgunde (see [4] - or perhaps you have found that already?). Lehmann's roles are here [5]. They also did Flowermaiden of course. There must be any number of famous singers who did these parts. --Kleinzach 22:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I had found my way to both those sites. I suspect that the LLF would count as a reliable source. I wasn't so sure about the ES one as it seems to be a fan site. If you should happen to have information on why the author of the ES part list, one Simon Holledge, should be counted as a RS, then please let me know. Otherwise, I thought you might have access to any sources he used and know which ones would count as reliable. The way that both the ES and LL lists seemed to give special mention of Vienna and Hamburg made me think that there were particular sources on those houses equivalent to the Met database. I don't need a whole splurge of names, it's just that over at Rhinemaidens I've mentioned four Bayreuth Rhinemaidens and then have Joan Sutherland sitting on her own in the sentence on people who have sung Rhinemaidens elsewhere. LL and ES were the two singers of comparable status where I've struck gold. I just need to get the gold out of the ground and package it nicely.
On another matter, I've just resumed my PhD and am under scrutiny, so I don't want to commit time to other exercises that require thought. I therefore don't want to commit myself to doing lots of Wikipedia article reviews or any real article development. The Rhinemaidens stuff is just finishing things off.--Peter cohen (talk) 09:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
The reason "both the ES and LL lists seemed to give special mention of Vienna and Hamburg" was simply because they were Hamburg/Vienna singers. (They had a close association as you may know.) The LLF page is by Tubeuf - fairly well-known but no sources. The ES page on the other hand does have sources although the Vienna one is unpublished. Actually both lists should be reliable! No problem I think! --Kleinzach 09:50, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Category:Musical eras

I replied to your question back on my talk page. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 08:14, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

When I came across it, it was no longer populated. It had been blanked too. The content before the blanking was:
{{History of European art music}} {{catdiffuse}} :[[Era]]s of [[European classical music]]. [[Category:Music history]] [[Category:Historical eras]] [[Category:Classical music]] [[eo:Kategorio:Muzikaj epokoj]]
User:CharlesGillingham probably blanked the page and resorted the entries based on the catdiffuse template you inserted in June. -- Mgm|(talk) 08:39, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
  • You asked how to go about moving things back. Have Charles contact me to confirm he agrees (just to make sure I don't have to undo the change again later) and start populating the category. When you're done, ask me to undelete the history for Musical eras and delete the then empty history of ... category. - Mgm|(talk) 07:55, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and restored the category to its original name. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 12:38, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

FSC gobbleygook

I posted a relevant message on PMA's talk page. Tony (talk) 03:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. What do you think of Shoemaker's Holiday's voting proposal here? --Kleinzach 23:34, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi Kleinzach,

Thanks for welcoming me to wikipedia. I am a complete neophyte when it comes to this realm, so I anticipate needing much support as I traverse this terrain. I look forward to learning quite a bit and doing my best to contribute as well!(J. Schaeffer (talk) 23:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC))

Not at all. Good luck and let me know if I can help. --Kleinzach 01:01, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
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