Jatt itehas

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September 2011

Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, but when you add or change content, as you did to the article Heer (clan), please cite a reliable source for your addition. This helps maintain our policy of verifiability. See Wikipedia:Citing sources for how to cite sources, and the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Sitush (talk) 16:19, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Dear User, Thanks for asking me to cite reliable source. As far as I understand about reliable source you are asking for, relates with Wikipedia sources or published books or something like that. You would be glad to know that I would be the first person to do so if they exist in this case. You are very correctly asking for the reliable sources but unfortunately they don’t exist in this case as they are merely present on Wikipedia. There is a vast literature about which many Wikipedia users are unaware just because it’s not present on Wikipedia yet. This doesn’t mean that we should consider them authentic when they are presented for the first time through other sources except Wikipedia. For example talking about my last edit, I added a village named ‘Rauwal’ where persons of this clan exist. I cited a reference of local site made by the villager. He has updated the correct data of his village. We can’t consider this reference as feign just because it’s not present on Wikipedia. Rather we should do effort to add it on Wikipedia for the betterment of its reliability. As far as this village is concerned, this village comes under District Ludhiana, Tehsil Jagraon, Block Sidhwan Bet. There is nothing incorrect in this. The only thing is that this is not yet updated on Wikipedia or on similar platform. Similarly there are many regions (small villages or towns) present in eastern and western Punjab which are not yet updated on Wikipedia. The important thing is that we should not depend only upon Wikipedia for reliable source perhaps we should go for local authentic subtle sources which provide us the useful information about a certain article and hence helps to explore it in a better way. Please check again all the places you have deleted and search for the on net you will come to know that all these places exist but you just ignored them considering unauthentic because they are not available on a Wikipedia or similar platform. I am just providing authentic sources from the best of my knowledge as well as experience and want to transmit it to the newer generation which might be unaware about their local history. I assured you that none of my update is unauthentic. You may explore any of my update separately and certainly you will come to know that all the resources are genuine. After knowing it you may help me by adding all these sources to Wikipedia too. So that they could become more reliable as you asked. I hope now you will be happier to revert your edits. Hope it helps. Thank You. Jatt itehas (talk) 17:04, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the reliable sources policy dictates what can and cannot be used as a source on Wikipedia. The huge amount of content that I had removed from the article recently all failed that policy, in most cases because the source included user-generated content (ie: we cannot judge the authenticity of it, nor guarantee its independence from the contributor who adds it to Wikipedia). Obviously, the specific example you mention above will also fall into that category. Local knowledge is not enough and, in any case, the really problematic bit in the case of this specific article was that the sources at best only confirmed that the places existed: they did not confirm that they were Heer villages (for which some type of recent census report would probably be the ideal source).

If suitable sources do not exist (whether as a book or other printed matter, a suitable website, or whatever) then the statement(s) should not be included in the article. It is as simple as that. I am afraid that this is just the way Wikipedia works. We cannot go round rewriting policies just to suit one article. - Sitush (talk) 17:41, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

You have rightly said that the sources at best only confirmed that the places existed: they did not confirm that they were Heer villages. Here i would like to add that these villages are named after this Clan. The only reference i could provide you is that if you would go into the history of this region you will certainly come to know that this is the tradition of this region (many parts of India and Pakistan) of naming villages after their clan name. This could be easily confirmed from two historic books (HA Rose’s ‘A Glossary of the Tribe and Casts of the Punjab’ page no.331 and Late Sir Denzil Ibbetson’s book ‘Punjab Castes’ page No. 122). Authors have clearly mentioned “Their home appears to lie north of the Sutlej and they are found in considerable numbers under the hills from Ambala in the east to Gujrat in the west, and throughout the whole upper valley of that river. There is a very old village called Heer in the Nakodar tehsil of Jullundhar which is still held by Heer Jatts, who says that they have lived there for a thousand years, in other words for an indefinite period".

Another thing, Please note that i am not quoting that whole these villages belong to a single clan but certainly some part of these villages are filled with people after whom these villages are named. Secondly again very rightly said that to confirm the presence of particular clan some type of recent census report would probably be the ideal source but again unfortunately they are not there on any reliable source like Wikipedia. (Jatt itehas (talk) 18:28, 13 September 2011 (UTC))

Well, I am afraid that it appears you may be stuck. Rose and Ibbetson do not confirm the point in a meaningful way, and to "make them" do that requires that we breach the synthesis and original research policies/guidelines. If you can find nothing concrete then the information will simply have to be omitted: it is better that we say nothing than that we run the risk of saying something that is incorrect. If you do ever find a suitable census report or similar material then the info can always be added at that time. - Sitush (talk) 18:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

By the time I respect your words. Although, it’s a tough task but I assured you that I will certainly go for this and will come up with concrete results as all this material is authentic. Thank You. (Jatt itehas (talk) 18:45, 13 September 2011 (UTC))

For reason that I do not understand, you reinserted all of the poorly cited material once again, despite your comment above that you would try to find better sources. Wikipedia articles, Wikimapia, jatland.com and the other sources used for the villages etc are not reliable sources and cannot be used to support a statement. Is there some aspect of the policy of which you are uncertain?- Sitush (talk) 09:13, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Aujla

The article Aujla has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non notable article, possibly directory, several of these article are just stub unsourced, an article (list) containing all these entries would suit better. All these articles were kept under the moniker that they would be eventually expanded, which clearly they did not.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Eduemoni^↑talk↓ 14:20, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Heer clan

The article Heer clan has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non notable article, possibly directory, several of these article are just stub unsourced, an article (list) containing all these entries would suit better. All these articles were kept under the moniker that they would be eventually expanded, which clearly they did not.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Eduemoni^↑talk↓ 14:36, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Heer clan

The article Heer clan has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails WP:GNG. There has never been a reliable source for this thing since it was created in 2010. The sources used at the outset, including the works of Ram Swarup Joon and B. S. Dhillon, have been discussed extensively at various noticeboards and have been deemed to be unreliable. Other than those, all that I can find are mirrors and mentions of it as a last name that is in common use without any obvious clan/tribal connection.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Sitush (talk) 12:25, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Aujla

The article Aujla has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Does not appear to meet WP:GNG, with a quick google search demonstrating no relevant results except mirrors of this page

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. KJ ^Discuss? 22:50, 11 June 2016 (UTC)