Intrepid-NY

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duty to retreat

Hey, saw your post about duty to retreat. The clarification is fine, but FYI most commentators are saying that duty to retreat/stand your ground is not a factor in the case.

Once on the ground, Zimmerman had no opportunity to retreat any longer. The only questions are three really. 1) Was whatever Martin was doing threating enough to be considered a reasonable imminent threat to life or significant injury. 2) Does Zimmerman's earlier actions count as instigating the event, which would remove his self defense protections. This depends highly on 3) the exact circumstances of how their physical confrontation began, which is unknown (but we have zimmerman's account).

Either Zimmerman was leaving, and martin attacked from behind (zimmerman's account)

Or zimmerman started something with Martin (pure conjecture devil's advocate)

In either case SYG does not enter. (although in the second case, Martin might possibly have had a SYG defense for fighting Zimmerman, and Zimmerman would not have justification for shooting).

Obviously all WP:OR (although this same analysis has been done by some semi-RS) so not valuable for inclusion in the article, but you might be interested.

Gaijin42 (talk) 01:26, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 3-30-12 Tagged

Yes, I mostly agree with your analysis. I'm an attorney and just wanted to make sure the law was explained correctly. By the way, even if Zimmerman's earlier actions instigated the event, it would not necessarily remove his self defense protection if he was subsequently attacked by Martin. For example, let's say Zimmerman instigated an unprovoked fist fight with Martin. Sometime later, while Zimmerman is walking back to his car, Martin comes at him with a knife. Zimmerman takes out his gun and shoots. Even though Zimmerman previously instigated the event, Zimmerman still has the right to self defense protections.

In this hypothetical, let's say it occurred in a non-SYG state (like NY). If Zimmerman saw Martin coming and had time to get into his car, lock the door and drive away, he would be required to do so.

It will be interesting to see what the grand jury or state attorney determines. Based on what I've read, I don't believe there is sufficient evidence for an indictment. Although, I wonder if Zimmerman reasonably feared great bodily harm or death. Perhaps after being punched in the nose, he was dazed and unable to defend himself.

Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. I'm a fairly new contributor.

Intrepid-NY (talk) 22:05, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

License tagging for File:George Zimmerman 3-30-12.jpg

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 Done Intrepid-NY (talk) 22:09, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Skittles

Hi. I initially thought it was irrelevant when I changed to snacks, but later I saw a picture of protesters holding up bags of Skittles, so it looks like it is relevant because it is a symbol for protest and has been used in rhetoric by notable people on the pro-Martin side. Regards, --Bob K31416 (talk) 18:58, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, normally irrelavent, but in the context of being picked up by the protesters as an image, is relevant. Gaijin42 (talk) 19:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, if that's the reason I'll agree that it's relevent. I've reverted my edit. However, I must say that I've always believed that the initial picture of Martin as young child along with the "Skittles" comments were prejudicial toward Zimmerman from the start. Intrepid-NY (talk) 22:01, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

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