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File:General Sherman tree.jpg listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:General Sherman tree.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Kelly ^hi! 23:35, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Hike395. You have new messages at Talk:Xixabangma.
Message added 14:23, 2 November 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 14:23, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Category:Computational learning theory

Hi, the Category:Machine learning is a bit overfull, and there seem to be a dozen stub articles from what I deem to be Computational learning theory. But I'm not an expert on this field. You contributed a bit on that article. Would you be able to build such a category and collect the relevant articles from machine learning (most should be on Special:WhatLinksHere/Computational_learning_theory since many of these stubs have the form "In computational learning theory, A is B" there to make the category more manageable? Thank you. --Chire (talk) 08:52, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Re Xixabangma

Hike, I was swayed to closing as no consensus because of two things. All the google searches were made with a variety of terms that essentially not everyone agreed with. With google, you get what you ask for, and I think determining that would be a very good step that could be handled on the talk page. Get all the interested parties to agree on a good set of search terms, then see what the result is. Two, I think the suggestion to have a rational discussion about this within the WikiProject Mountains was very wise. There's no hurry, and the pressure of a move that is controversial isn't the best motivation for a rational discussion. I have come to one conclusion about article titles, it really doesn't matter from a user perspective (lots more of them than editors). As editors, we get all hung up with different rationales for different titles, but as long as there are the right redirects, an user will find the article, and when they do, they won't be disappointed that the article title is something different, they are there for the content. I would hold off on any further moves and engage interested parties in both the project and on the talk page. My two cents. --Mike Cline (talk) 17:10, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

This is great advice. I thought I was helping by doing the Google searches myself: in the future, I will try and make sure that everyone agrees to the queries before running them. And, point taken about redirects: getting the perfect title doesn't really help our users that much. —hike395 (talk) 17:20, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Hike395, I still have your page on my watchlist and I guess I am glad because I think Mike Clines's words are very appropriate and they put things into perspective for me. I am fine with the current name, but I was just very uneasy about how it got there. I guess I still am a little to be honest, but I feel better about the whole thing now after reading this. Just like to echo once again that I am all for a rational discussion at WikiProject Mountains and interested in what the opinions there might be. Thank you again Hike395 for steppping up when I called upon you and a 'well said' to Mike Cline for the wise words.--Racerx11 (talk) 23:24, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Image & size

Hi Hike395, saw your Virginia Lakes "allow image to resize" edit summary. I'm ignorant of the benefit of that, please help. I've wondered how the wiki projects appear on small laptops, tablets, and smartphones - is this related? Thanks—Look2See1 t a l k → 22:52, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Look2See1. WP:ImageSize talks about this: forcing a size causes text to look bad on small screens, and if a user has set his/her preference to big images, it may actually cause them to shrink. So, generally, we should let the software and users set the image sizes.

Have you ever been up to Virginia Lakes? —hike395 (talk) 23:28, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Yes, half dozen times including hiking from there, and the setting is so beautiful. A while back though - sometime between 395 being paved, Mono Lake nearly disappearing, & personal computers becoming available.... Thanks for image size info/link. I appreciate your (community) stewardship attention for the Sierra's articles, thank you. Best—Look2See1 t a l k → 23:53, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

tweaking {{Include-USGov}}

Sorry I've been ignoring you. As you can see (from my annotations to the template in the sandbox) I am trying to get my head around what the logic is. I want to add a parameter that will allow a complete template to be passed in as is done in {{source-attribution}}. It is taking me time to work out the cleanest way to do that. Any suggestions welcome. When I have that done I'll implement your change simultaneously. -- PBS (talk) 01:49, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I think the code is just about ready. There is a client test template in Template:Army Center of Military History/sandbox. It is important that tests are run against it (as calling one template via another can throw up funny bugs that do not show up if a template is called directly -- I described them towards the end of the section Template talk:ODNBweb#Alternative sandbox implementation and changes)

And it would be useful if someone other than me ran the test. Would you like to do the honours I have put some samples into Template:Army Center of Military History/testcases but if you want to come up with some new ones be my guest.

The only difference you should see is if source=some value is set. Some value can either be a string with or without links, or any of the {{cite book}} etc templates.

-- PBS (talk) 17:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I created a test at {{USGS/testcases}}. I've noticed the following issues:

1. When I use source with a comment (but nothing else), the comment disappears
2. When I use source with no article, the template generates "from websites or documents of the United States Geological Survey". Shouldn't it default to "from the United States Geological Survey document:" and then emit the source string?
3. Italics have gone away. Perhaps this is the correct thing -- ideally, if used inline, we'd like normal type, and only as a standalone warning should there be italics. Perhaps we should only italicize when there are no arguments?

—hike395 (talk) 05:48, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

{{USGS/testcases}} is not the best because it will not normally be called directly. If you do that and have no parameters it should return a red message.

I had intended to test Template:Army Center of Military History/testcases. Which is closer to a test of it loose in the wild.

My idea is one either calls the template with the old parameters or source, but not both. Therefore with the exception of {{{agency}}} and {{{policy}}} which are needed for the lead. Non of the others work is source is called.

So the comment disappearing with source is intentional. You can either pass it in as the quote parameter inside source={{citation}} or whatever, or simply put it after the template. The others I'll look into the other points your raise. I also have had further thoughts about how we can generalise it so that there only needs to be two templates and redirects to one of them. This will cut down the maintaince issue and mean that any change propagates out to all of them. BTW the {{Army Center of Military History}} does not at present support comments. It only supports |article= |url= |author= |accessdate= . --PBS (talk) 08:02, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I chose {{USGS}} to test because it may be the most extensive use of {{Include-USGov}}. When I originally wrote {{Include-USGov}}, I started with {{USGS}} and generalized it to other templates.

I really like the possibility of using the source templates, because then the formatting and parameters will be closer to other inline citations. As for the comment field, I added it to support citations in articles similar to Blue Mountains (ecoregion). I would love to be able to use the source field there, but I would need to somehow add that comment. Should I add the comment parameter to {{Include-USGov/sandbox}}? —hike395 (talk) 11:48, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Wait, I'm being dumb. I can add the code to the USGS template, and then you don't need to modify Include-USGov. I'll do so. —hike395 (talk) 18:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I have been mixed up in all sorts of admin stuff to do with 3 different users and alledged copyright violations. So my mind has not been on this. Indeed I started to work on this because one of the cases involved a debate over the copying of a U.S. Government paper. Any way I'll spend half an hour on these templates now. -- PBS (talk) 11:42, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

It worked we can reduce all the templates down to two -- I suggest that we call the inner template the kernel and the outer outer one the shell (as would any UNIX hacker). It would be possible to reduce it to one, but that would make it more complicated than it needs to be. For the moment I have placed "shell" template into User:Philip Baird Shearer/test4. I have tested it by making {{Army Center of Military History/sandbox}} a redirect to User:Philip Baird Shearer/test4, see the text scripts in {{Army Center of Military History/testcases}}. I would like you to try changing {{USGS/sandbox}} to redirect to {tl|User:Philip Baird Shearer/test4}} and see what you think of the output in Template:USGS/testcases -- PBS (talk) 13:08, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Poll to determine support for move from Shishapangma to Xixabangma

You have been involved in the recent naming discussion at Talk:Xixabangma. There is a new poll to determine support for the move from Shishapangma to Xixabangma. If you are interested, please provide your opinion here.--Wikimedes (talk) 00:55, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

File:Halfdome.jpg listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Halfdome.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:01, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

GRTE

I intend to get Grand Teton NP near to FA level over the next two weeks...been doing geographic articles in relation to the article and have to resume the cleanup of the flora/fauna sections, expand on ecology, exoctic species, other factors and add a section on recreation...then I'll recheck all the refs and make sure those are solid. Thanks for keeping a vigil in the meantime.--MONGO 01:24, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

List of Destinations Yosemite

Hi Hike,

Big fan of your work. I'm new to Wikipedia and I'd like to contribute on the List of Destinations Yosemite page as I plan to visit the park in a couple of days. Specifically, I'd like to make it out to Vogelsang, take a pic, do some research, and make a page for the link (which already exists). I'd appreciate any recommendations or guidance you might provide me with.

Thanks,

Noah (nsimcoff) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nsimcoff (talk • contribs) 04:57, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

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Hmmm...

I just went through a handful of articles in Category:Set indices on mountains and they were all categorized as disambigs rather than lists. Think I checked a few other set indices and that was the case, too.RadioKAOS (talk) 01:32, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Check out WP:SIA --- they're described explicitly as list articles, not dabs. What you've found is that the talk page templates are wrong --- we can fix that. —hike395 (talk) 01:35, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

It's come up as disambig on every one I've checked so far. Unless you can automate that, sounds like a lot of work.RadioKAOS (talk) 03:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

There is at least one bot operator over at WP:WikiProject Mountains --- we can ask for help over there. —hike395 (talk) 05:48, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

No response. I think I will register for AWB. —hike395 (talk) 05:39, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi there. I went for a nap, which was interrupted yet again by my roommate's usual drunken Tourette syndrome routine. I was assessing/categorizing articles for WikiProject Alaska, some of which have been left unassessed for years, and see that you're involved with another WP. Just from looking at enough of a cross-section of SIAs, this sounds like a pretty broad change involving many WPs. Have you discussed this anywhere? Just wondering.RadioKAOS (talk) 07:08, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

You're right --- I didn't realize there were almost 30000 SIAs! Perhaps I'll just fix the 83 Mountain SIAs, by hand. —hike395 (talk) 07:15, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

 Done I fixed all talk pages in Category:Set indices on mountains, using AWB. I'll stop now. —hike395 (talk) 13:09, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Comments on trial Infobox mountain range

Hi Hike. Good work! I like the new layout overall. The only modification to the layout I would like is the slightly smaller font and line spacing and possibly the divider lines of Geobox. Just condenses the infobox a little and IMHO is easier on the eye.

I do a lot of translating from German Wikipedia. Whilst I think your infobox is way more attractive than theirs, it would help if the following optional parameters were available (they may be, I just can't spot them):

• Map width - a default is assumed but this allows "portrait" maps to be widened to the max width of the infobox
• Location - more general than countries/states, etc and allows a combination e.g. "Bavaria, Germany" or "border of Tyrol, Austria, and Italy"
• Classification - gives the source which has classified and named the range. Important e.g. in the Alps where there are different schemes and hence mountain range names!
• Reference system - the reference system on which the highest elevation is based e.g. in Europe there are several such as the DE-NN for Normalnull, DE-NHN for Normalhöhennull, AT for metres above the Adriatic, CH for Metres above the Sea (Switzerland). Elevations vary depending on the system used.
• Latitude - ideally one that can interpret "XX/XX/XX/N"
• Longitude - ditto for "YY/YY/YY/E"
• Region-ISO - the regional ISO code from ISO 3166-1 and/or ISO 3166-2. Where a range straddles 2 or more regions; these are separated by a "/".
• Position map - able to use the existing default relief maps
• Remarks - for any additional special remarks not already covered e.g. "Highest range in the Tundra"

Also "Cities" should probably be something like "Towns and cities" or "Major settlements" as a city outside the US is only used for very large conurbations e.g. those over 100,000 people.

I hope that helps. And thanks again for championing this useful approach. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:53, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

A cheeseburger for you!

Well done tidying up Scott Williamson (hiker) - it's a whole lot more readable. Here's a hi-energy burger for you on your next hike. No littering now! Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:22, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Include-NASA template in Apollo 13 (film)

I think you may have been a bit overzealous in adding this template here, so I removed it. I don't see any place where NASA site information was cited (or quoted) in the article about a Hollywood movie.

Besides, I have some question about the general applicability of the template (which I see incidentally, you created). As I understand the plagiarism policy, it only applies to copied (quoted) text (not cited, paraphrased text) or media. JustinTime55 (talk) 20:39, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I added it because Talk:Apollo 13 (film) has the {{NASA}} PD verbatim warning template on it. Digging through the Talk history, I see that User:DrNegative added the notice back in April 2009. When I looked at his article contributions for that date, I see that he added a reference to the Apollo 13 Technical Air-To-Ground Voice Transcription, published by NASA. That reference is no longer in the article, so you're right that the {{Include-NASA}} template is no longer needed. —hike395 (talk) 05:12, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Help needed at Talk:Mount Kitanglad

I don't know if you would have a simple explanation or would care to sift thru it all, but we are in need of help at Talk:Mount Kitanglad. Thank you. --Racerx11 (talk) 14:49, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Lassen end date

Yeah thats fine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noble fan (talk • contribs) 08:21, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Could I get some help in creating a US Govt attribution template?

I'm trying to create one for the old Dictionary of Occupational Titles, found in places like this but clearly in the public domain. Could you give me a hand? Template-fu is not my metier, I fear. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:17, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Sure, happy to help. You'll probably want to use {{Include-USGov}}, which is pretty easy to use. See, e.g., /DoOT. As I wrote it, there are two use cases. First, with no arguments, the template points to the entry page of the dictionary:

{{/DoOT}}

Or, it can accept two arguments, which describe a particular page:

{{/DoOT|article=Professional, Technical, And Managerial Occupations 001.061-010 to 024.364-010|url=http://www.oalj.dol.gov/PUBLIC/DOT/REFERENCES/DOT01A.HTM}}

Is this good enough? If so, then feel free to copy it to the template space with a suitable name. Otherwise, we can modify it. —hike395 (talk) 06:53, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

The first version is probably easier; but it was usually called "DOT" rather than "DoOT"; so how about {{DOT1991}}? --Orange Mike | Talk 14:33, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I could remove the parameters, but that seems limiting. Either {{DOT1991}} or {{DoL-DOT}} is fine with me. —hike395 (talk) 15:05, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

DOT1991 looks good; but I don't know what to copy and paste, or where to paste it to, and how to format it. Templates are not, as I said, my forté. --Orange Mike | Talk 15:47, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done --- {{DOT1991}} is ready for you to use: you don't need to do any more work on the template. —hike395 (talk) 06:26, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Merge of Montane forest

I think it would have been better to have initiated a discussion on the relevant talk pages before merging "Montane forest" into "Montane zone". The definitions of "montane" are somewhat variable in the literature, but these are not the same topic. Also you've left sentences which don't make sense and/or are not now supported by their references, such as "A cloud forest is a particular example of a montane zone." No, it's a particular example of a montane forest; at least that's what the source says. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:10, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to revert, and we can discuss further. We can follow WP:BRD —hike395 (talk) 10:21, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Reflist and formatting

Actually for many users 35em works much better then 30em which wraps too many lines. So as a general rule switching between these is a matter of personal preference and should not be done. Now if all of the links are really short then 20 or 25 would be correct. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:17, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

On the iPad, 35em makes one column, while 30em makes two. That's why I changed it. Is there guidance about this somewhere? —hike395 (talk) 01:20, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Last I looked the example on how to do that used 30em. I know I raised it in discussions at one time, but it came down to how it displays is a function of so many factors that no recommendation is wrong. Using my normal display 30em gives me three crunched columns and 35em provides two nicely layed out ones. I know that 35em on my netbook gives a single column which I find as acceptable. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:56, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, if you'd like to change back to 35em, that's ok with me. Or we can try 32em. On a 1280px on Firefox 11, with 30em you get 2 very nice columns. —hike395 (talk) 03:14, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Later: 33em is the largest value that generates 2 columns on the iPad. Is that value ok with you? —hike395 (talk) 03:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Yep. Thanks. Vegaswikian (talk) 05:34, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

I think I'll use 33em from now on... —hike395 (talk) 06:01, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

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User_talk:71.32.160.79

Responded with some ISP info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.160.79 (talk) 10:14, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

NASA template removal

What's the thinking behind removing the NASA template from so many articles? --RadioFan (talk) 12:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

The consensus at TfD is to delete {{NASA}} from talk pages, to be replaced with {{Include-NASA}} on the corresponding articles. I'm slowly performing this: I'm only deleting {{NASA}} from talk pages for articles that already include {{Include-NASA}}. I'll use a better edit summary from now on. —hike395 (talk) 21:37, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Geobox and Infobox mountain

Thank you for your offer of help with the above is the |Isolation= parameter part of that? What else needs to be done? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:20, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I started to go through the 63 articles, converting what I thought were easy cases. It's complex, though, for several reasons:

1. Back in 2009, there was a discussion about converting West Virginia mountains from Geobox to Infobox mountain. Brian Powell from WP:WikiProject West Virginia strongly objected to the conversion, so I couldn't get consensus to change. About half the 63 seems to fall into that bucket.
2. There are a number of Eastern European peaks that use a sophisticated method for generating multiple maps in an infobox. I don't understand the templates involved, but that seems to be what User:Tlustulimu is talking about when he made {{geobox2 map2}}. I am stuck here: perhaps you could figure this out? The canonical example is Batizovský štít.
3. There are numerous remaining infoboxes that use dubious fields (like time zone, plants, or animals). The use of these fields is precisely my objection to Geobox --- they allow people to fill infoboxes up with low value data.

   I originally thought that isolation was one of those low value fields, but User:Bermicourt uses that field for mountain articles over at de. He asked for the field about a year ago, so I thought I would go ahead and implement it. Apparently User:Droll also thinks that the field is low value, so we don't have consensus to add it.

Overall, I don't think that we can perform your original suggestion of simply expanding the functionality of the infobox and lose no data. —hike395 (talk) 07:37, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

/Fernow

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Little Einstein's Season 3 Edit

Hello Hike 395,

You undid one of my changes to the Little Einstein's episode guide page. This was not vandalism. The person who is at ip address 73.71.198.184 has been adding a fictional season 3 to this page. I have googled repeatedly for information on a season 3 as my kids are fans of the show. Since I could not find it on an tv website, imdb or the disney website I removed all references to it. The person at the aforementioned ip address keeps adding it back. This has been a running battle for 2 days now.

Thanks for trying to keep wikipedia accurate.

--Divad2001 (talk) 00:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

I did not vandalize any page. Please specify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.255.2.44 (talk) 04:05, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

I had no trouble finding a non-authoritative source for 5 seasons, but the total episode count is still 67/68 (some variance as to what an episode is). It's just about what was considered a "season". — AlanM1 (talk) 11:38, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

List of Sierra Nevada road passes

It seems that Minaret Summit may not really belong in this list because the road that traverses it dead-ends high within the forest, not really crossing the range like the other routes. There are probably other examples of such access routes that aren't listed either. US 395 itself probably has a number of (even named) passes along it that would be similarly out of place. — AlanM1 (talk) 23:38, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

It really does cross the crest of the range, unlike any of the passes on US 395. It is California State Route 203 on the east side, crosses the crest at Minaret Summit, then turns into Reds Meadow Road and drops 2000+ feet in the next few miles. Check out the map at [1] —hike395 (talk) 23:42, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

It dead-ends at about 37.611381°N 119.075863°W / 37.611381; -119.075863, though, still about 7,800 feet (2,400 m) elevation, and at least 70 miles (110 km) air distance from CA 99. Crossing the crest doesn't seem to be among the criteria, based on the title and lead - just that they be road passes (whatever those are - did they mean mountain passes?) and that they be in the Sierra Nevada. I'm just saying that, looking at the list, and thinking about what someone might want a list of (e.g. ways to cross over the range in a car), Minaret Summit seems out of place. — AlanM1 (talk) 00:14, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I would have called the article "trans-Sierra automobile routes" to distinguish it from "Sierra road passes", which I would think are purely local geographic features. I left a note in the description field for Minaret Summit, marking it as not being a trans-Sierra route. Does that address your concern? (Interestingly, It almost was a trans-Sierra route, but in a fit of environmentalism, Ronald Reagan fought against it!) —hike395 (talk) 05:11, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Sure - that makes it clear. Unless you plan on creating the page, you might want to remove the wikilink for Reds Meadow, since I don't think anyone else is likely to create it. I got a chuckle out of the irony of the Reagan bit when I read it. — AlanM1 (talk) 11:35, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Mount Shasta

Nice work on the Mount Shasta article. –droll [chat] 06:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm curious to see where consensus settles. —hike395 (talk) 07:00, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

	Anti-Vandal Gorp
	For your indefatigable vigilance in combating vandalism on Wikipedia, I hereby award you with this gorp. Keep up the good work. Gobōnobo + c 07:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Yummy! Thank you! —hike395 (talk) 07:07, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

/testLeast /Himalaya

infoboxes and coordinates

Hello there! I appreciate the fine work you do adding infoboxes to articles. Thank you for that.

I wish to suggest that when adding infoboxes that generate title coordinates (such as {{Infobox mountain range}}) to an article you should also check for any pre-existing title coordinates and remove them. Otherwise, if the two sets of coordinates do not match exactly they get superposed into an illegible jumble. Just a minor quibble. I don't mind cleaning these up, but I'm sure you take pride in your work and want to do as good a job as you can, so that's way I'm pointing this out.

Best regards, —Stepheng3 (talk) 22:13, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Overlays and Infobox coord

I replied to your comment on my talk page about {{Infobox coord}} and modified my comment on template talk page. Thanks.

I noticed your work in {{Infobox map/sandbox}} so I added an overlay parameter. Right now it works with the coordinates option and with the x,y options. I'll, probably, add it to the superimpose option tomorrow.

You probably already know this. If you want to use {{Location map}} to simulate the maps shown in Geobox, you can create a template like {{Location map Slovakia2}}. It should include the information in {{Geobox locator Slovakia}} and with the addition of the name and image information. The ratio parameter is not needed. Then you can use the overlay parameter to superimpose File:Slovakia - outline map.svg. –droll [chat] 06:06, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for getting me unstuck!! I had almost given up.

As you may have noticed, I finished adding drawn_map and overlay to the infobox map sandobx. i'm trying to make the AWB conversion of Geobox as painless as possible --- Geobox has some hairy logic for handling maps, which I am trying to emulate in {{Infobox map}}. I don't want to make a bunch of new location maps. Sadly, the overlays that people use seem not to have transaprent backgrounds, so I am not sure that {{location mark+}} can handle it. Still experimenting. —hike395 (talk) 07:17, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Can you point me to an example of an article you want to convert where this is a problem. –droll [chat] 07:21, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I will fit them in at the following link over the next few minute: /BadGeoboxMaps —hike395 (talk) 07:25, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

All done. take a look. The second one is broken. thanks! —hike395 (talk) 07:59, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I think what we need to do is call {{superimpose2}} if none of x, y, x%, y%, pixel_x, and pixel_y are true —hike395 (talk) 08:05, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to have to work on it sometime tommorow. It's time for bed. –droll [chat] 08:30, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

 Fixed I found a few bugs. {{Infobox map/sandbox}} and {{Infobox mountain range/sandbox}} Should be ready for promotion: I am just way too tired to double check it, so I I'll leave them in the sandboxes until you or I can double check. The nice thing about this Infobox map extension is now we can convert ~30 or so Eastern European mountains that are still annoying Geoboxes. —hike395 (talk) 09:09, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

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I got some time this afternoon and I currently have a modified version of {{Infobox mountain range}} in my sandbox. I have a version of your test cases here. "The middle" test case, in my local copy, transcludes the markup in my sandbox. It relies on the following assumptions:

1. That a Location map template exists that is equivalent to the Geobox locator specified by map_locator, i.e. that every Geobox locator template maps to a Location map template. Even if a Location map template with the same name exists, it might not be equivalent.
2. That map_background is an opaque image over which an overlay is superimposed.
3. That when map_background is not empty map is an overlay, otherwise it is and map image.

I don't feel good about either my solution our yours. I believe have seen instances where map_locator, map_background and map are all not empty and a marker is displayed. I think this would invalidate your solution and mine. The {{location map}} part of {{Infobox coord}} will not work with an alternative map that does not have the same height to width ratio as the default image. Maybe, if luck is with us, there is no mountain range infobox that uses both an overlay and a location marker.

If you want to modify {{Infobox map}} so that your solution will work, I think it would be best if, for the time being, {{Infobox mountain range}} used its own version of {{Infobox map}} (a sub page like Infobox mountain used to have) since we know that the current version is stable. –droll [chat] 22:12, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

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I did a quick hack of the Geobox mapping template. Currently the test cases are here. I think this would be a safe and easy way to do the migration. It would be nice to use Location map templates but as I mentioned above I don't think they are always equivalent. If you are interested I'll work on it some more. It would be no problem to customize the marker. –droll [chat] 04:36, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I would like to use my proposed infobox map solution in {{Infobox map/sandbox}} and {{Infobox mountain range/sandbox}}, for the following reasons:

1. It works for the situation where there are all three parameters, map_locator, map_background and map, and a marker is placed (see the new last test case at /BadGeoboxMaps, where the new icon is placed correctly). This uses the overlay and AlternativeMap parameters of {{location map}}, which seems to be stable code.
2. I would really like to add this functionality to infobox mountain. We can get rid of 19 of the remaining 29 Geobox|Mountain infoboxes if we add this functionality. That would be so glorious.
3. The additional code added to {{Infobox map/sandbox}} does not break the test cases at {{Infobox map/testcases}}. As far as I can tell, those are the cases that all existing infoboxes rely on --- the code that I have added adds new functionality beyond that. I am happy to write some extensive testing for the new behaviors, if you wish.

Do I have your support for making the change? —hike395 (talk) 04:56, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Later: I just looked at the code for your quick hack. It's very nice that you got {{Geobox map}} to work --- I could not do that.

I can see making a kludge in {{Infobox mountain range}} for that. But, do you want to use that same kludge in {{Infobox mountain}}, too? —hike395 (talk) 05:08, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

If we decide to use the Geobox hack, I can write a new template (maybe named {{Locator map}}) and make it available for anyone who wants to use one of the Geobox locator templates. Yes, I think that adding the functionality of {{Infobox mountain}} would be good but we should do it in a way that does not increase the expansion depth. I got the problem with {{Infobox map}} fixed with and edit to one of the sub-templates used by {{coord}}. I was kind of upset about that problem yesterday.

If you agree I'll work on the new template tomorrow. I want it to have the ability to use custom markers. –droll [chat] 05:47, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

P.S. I'm thinking the new template should use parameter names like the ones used by in {{Infobox map}}. You can use an "Template parameter" rule in AutoWikiBrowser to change the parameter names. Anyway, I'll try to write the template that way and I can change it later on if it gets too convoluted. –droll [chat] 06:03, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't know about the Template parameter rule. Now I am not sure what you are planning on doing --- make a whole new Infobox mountain range and Infobox mountain? Or simply add an if statement inside of the existing templates? It's not clear. —hike395 (talk) 06:06, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

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I created the {{locator map}} template today and there is a version of {{Infobox mountain range}}, currently in the new template's sandbox, that integrates the functionality. There is a test case here but I'll probably add it to the template's test cases. I'll probably make some suggestions on the template's talk page later. –droll [chat] 23:50, 9 May 2012 (UTC)