User talk:Alyo/Archive 2

September 2010 Backlog Elimination Drive Conclusion

GOCE September 2010 backlog elimination drive progress graphs Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors September 2010 Backlog Elimination Drive. Thanks to all who participated! Several of our top editors were called away to real life concerns during the month (be careful out there, people!). This meant that once again, we did not meet all our lofty targets, but we did come close. Stats Out of 76 registered editors, 45 actively participated. We nearly wiped out the 2008 articles from the backlog—there were only 13 remaining when the drive closed. We reduced the backlog by 725 articles (11.5%), so it was another successful drive. A total of 59 barnstars will be awarded to 40 editors—well done, and congratulations to all. Barnstars If you copy edited at least 4,000 words, you qualify for a barnstar. If you edited in the July 2010 GOCE Backlog Elimination Drive, you may have earned rollover words, which counted towards this month's barnstars (except for the leaderboard awards). Any unused word credits will be held over for the next drive, as long as you participated in the September drive. Over the course of the next week or two, we will be handing out the barnstars. Click here to see a list of barnstar winners. We will be holding our next drive in November. You can sign up here. A huge "thank you" to all editors who helped clear the backlog and to others who helped out behind-the-scenes. See you at the next drive, and until then, please continue to help us work through the backlog. Happy editing! Coordinator: ɳorɑfʈ Talk! Co-coordinators: Diannaa (Talk) and S Masters (talk). Newsletter by Diannaa (Talk) and The UtahraptorTalk to me/Contributions.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors at 07:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC).

GOCE Barnstar

		The Modest Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to NoleLover for contributions during the September 2010 copy edit drive. Thank you! Diannaa (Talk) 17:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

regarding Kimi no iru machi

Hello, Alyo. You have new messages at Username's talk page.
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208.120.25.41 (talk) 22:06, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello

I would like to add a forum I created for DSAP, I believe it is highly related to the wiki post.

Kind Regards, Steve —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.33.164.35 (talk) 22:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but adding your own personal website is not allowed. That's advertising, and you have a conflict of interest anyway. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 20:45, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

CSD A3

Yes I did. :) thanks--Talktome^(Intelati) 18:32, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Did you mean to do this?--Talktome^(Intelati) 19:35, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, did I revert myself? I guess so...Thanks for picking that up. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 19:47, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Your welcome.--Talktome^(Intelati) 19:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Howdy

Hello, Alyo. You have new messages at Ser Amantio di Nicolao's talk page.
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Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:02, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

November copy edit drive

Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors Backlog Elimination Drive! The Wikipedia Guild of Copy-Editors invites you to participate in the November 2010 Backlog Elimination Drive, a month-long effort to reduce the backlog of articles that require copy-editing. The drive will begin on 1 November at 00:00 (UTC) and will end on 30 November at 23:59 (UTC). The goal for this drive is to reduce the backlog by 10% (approximately 500 articles). We hope to focus our efforts on the oldest three months (January, February, and March 2009) and the newest three months (September, October, and November 2010) of articles in the queue. Sign-up has already begun at the November drive page, and will be open throughout the drive. If you have any questions or concerns, please leave a message on the drive's talk page. Before you begin copy-editing, please carefully read the instructions on the main drive page. Please make sure that you know how to copy-edit, and be familiar with the Wikipedia Manual of Style. Awards and barnstars A range of barnstars will be awarded to active participants, some of which are exclusive to GOCE drives. More information on awards can be found on the main drive page. Thank you; we look forward to meeting you on the drive! — The UtahraptorTalk to me/Contributions, S Masters (talk), and Diannaa (Talk)

Great userpage!!!

		The Excellent User Page Award
		I heard (or saw, whichever) that you really want a barnstar, and I think that your userpage is really pretty, so I award you the "Excellent User Page" award. Cheers! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 02:48, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I got a lot of the code from White Shadows, but I like to think it's pretty good. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 02:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Oddly enough, I was in the middle of changing the pic on my page when I got the "New messages" box. How do you like it now? :) Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 03:02, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it still looks great! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 03:06, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Sigh of relief...I was afraid you would take the barnstar away. :D Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 03:08, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Alyo. You have new messages at Eagles247's talk page.
Message added 19:03, 22 October 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Deletion notice - Rick Day

Hi Nolelover

I just received a deletion notice on my wikipedia article titled 'Rick Day'. I was wondering what information is needed to improve my article and avoid deletion.

Thanks for your help. Leilaluna (talk) 05:55, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

First off, Graeme Bartlett declined the speedy nomination, so it won't be deleted anytime soon. I marked it for deletion because I didn't think it met the notability guidelines for people - plenty of reliable sources that establish notability. What you do need to do, is find sources for statements such as "...and has since become a noted name in Fashion Photography", and basically the entire "Career" section. Here's how to create references. I've gone ahead and cleaned up the article a lot. Hope this helps. :) -- Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 17:10, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Badlees Article

The article was written from an honest and objective piont of view.

Please do not asset that it is a "fan site" without pointing out specifics.

---The River of Rock —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riverofrock (talk • contribs) 18:57, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry Riverofrock, but the article needs a lot of work. The main problem is that there aren't enough good sources. This is a 4400 word article and it only has 3 references and external links? Something's wrong with that picture. This article reads like an unsourced advert ("well-crafted, entertaining, and thoughtful album with fine, exquisite details", " climatic epic", "It features the most diverse array of songwriting and voices", etc.), and I'm going to clean it up. Also, User:Chubbles added a conflict of interest tag, which is interesting, and probably true. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 19:20, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Nolelover,

If you check out this page, you'll notice that the Modern Rock Review article (that is cited) has about 80 distinct sources that span 22 years. http://www.modernrockreview.com/Features/2010-1010_Badlees/A-B.php#Bibliography I'll add each of these sources to the page, if it satisfies your standards. I just have not had time to do so to this point.

It is true, that writers at The River of Rock have added much this weekend, but that is only because there has been been (and still is) a tremendous lack of representation of Pennsylvania music on Wikipedia, AMG, and other fine Internet resources.

We will be adding plenty of material on many artists in the near future. We started with the Badlees because they have been one of the more susccessful and prolific of these artists. We are not members of the Badlees, nor agents of the band, nor affiliated in any way beyond their cooperation with the research we have conducted over the past months.

Please do not be hasty in this situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riverofrock (talk • contribs) 20:04, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

First off, thank you for continuing to discuss this, instead of just reverting and not saying anything about "why". Lets keep that up. :) Next, lots of sources by themselves don't save an article. Many of the articles you and IzzyJim created (specifically all of the album articles), as well as The Badlees, look like advertisements. That is the main problem with them, and that needs to be cleaned up.

Also, regarding Talk:CygnusWave Music, if you tell me what you would like it renamed, I can do that for you. -- Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 20:27, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

By all means, edit to your heart's desire - our only concern is the omission of relevant information.

Also, why have most of the album images been deleted? Aren't they important to the album articles? 20:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riverofrock (talk • contribs)

In the case of It Ain’t For You (Badlees EP) (and probably all the others), it was a copyright violation. You can only post and use pictures that you own or have permission to use. Here is something (much) more in-depth. Again though, if you want CygnusWave Music renamed, tell me, and I'll do it. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:10, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

OK - here is where I am confused. This whole conversation got started because it was asserted that the authors of this article were close to the subject - something that it is not true nor is there any evidence of such. But if you assert this (and the disclaimer is still there), how on earth can you simultaneously claim copyright violation ???? I guess my question is - how does an honest, 3rd party source post an article, an album article without providing the cover image? Please clarify this policy. 71.207.55.186 (talk)Riverofrock —Preceding undated comment added 14:25, 24 October 2010 (UTC).

Sorry, let me explain. The prose (content) in the articles appears to be written by either a 1) fan, 2) someone close to them, or 3) one of the band members. No one has claimed that the prose is a copyvio. The pictures, on the other hand, were deleted because the uploader (you?) didn't have the correct permissions. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 00:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I have been asked on a IRC to answer this, can you however clarify your question and leave {{talkback}} on my talkpage, thanks.  JoeGazz  ▲  00:20, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I believe RoR is asking a) why his previous picture (It was here) was deleted, b) under what policy he could upload a new album picture or c) if he is expected to go without an album picture. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 00:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

He has a few options:

• Find an image on Flikr that complies with commons guidelines (Flikr Images should have copyright info on them [does not have to be Flikr, it is just easy there])
• The Image was deleted because it was copyrighted (I do not know for what, you need to ask the deleting admin)
• Go without image. (That is perfectly fine, not all articles must have images)

The image guidelines for wikipedia are here WP:IMAGE.  JoeGazz  ▲  00:40, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Joe. RoR, I hope this answers your questions regarding the photos. Otherwise, I suggest you ask someone else, since I know very little about individual policies. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 00:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

• Let me just say that the above comments have been rather misguided. Any non-free album cover image on Flickr is still not free. Images are only deleted off Commons for being non-free, as Commons only hosts free images. So, the answer is, upload the album cover locally (to en.wikipedia), adding a WP:fair use rationale and the correct license tag. If you are not sure how to do this, give me a link to the album cover online, and I will do it for you. Riverofrock, and I apologize for this inconvenience (although our image policies are very complicated). If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 03:31, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
  • So Fetch, if I take a picture of the album cover and upload that, I assume it is still copyrighted material and can't be used? Or is that somehow an "own work"? Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 04:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Still non-free, if the album cover is the main focus of the the image. If the image is, say, of a desk, and an CD happens to be lying on the corner, and the album art is not a major part of the photo, it would fall under de minimis and that wouldn't be an issue, but that would be useless for an article. In any case, Wikipedia (not Commons) allows album cover images for the album's article, provided the image is uploaded locally and has the fair use rationale/non-free tag. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 04:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
      • Ah...but what exactly do you mean by "uploaded locally"? There's a difference between uploading to en.wiki versus commons? Thanks for answering my questions, as I've learned more about images tonight then in the past two or three months on WP. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 04:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
• Yes, certainly; files on Commons can be used on any WMF wiki (as well as other non-WMF wikis), while files on this Wikipedia can only be used here. So files on the German Wikipedia can't be used on the French one, etc. either. That's why non-free files are uploaded locally here: because Commons doesn't take them. However, we can transfer free files uploaded locally to Commons, so they can be used elsewhere, too. :) /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 05:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Well, that answers a lot of questions. Thanks! -- Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 05:11, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Thanks for this info. I didn't realize Wikicommons was only for non-copyrighted material so I re-uploaded through en.wikipedia. Riverofrock (talk) 21:08, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

• The prose in the article(s) is based on over 80 different items of source material, written by a vast array of writers for a vast array of publications over the course of 22 years. None of these were band members!!! "Fan" and "Someone Close" are extremely subjective. The River of Rock is a brand new (we don't even have a website) yet and ever growing not-for-profit organization made up of writers, media persons, venue owners and operators, and yes, musicians, producers, and managers of artists. But not one single word of this article onthe Badlees was written by any member or agent of the Badlees, save any direct quotes that were in the above mentioned sources. I understand that your assumption above that it "appears to be written by..." may be based on some legitimate expreiences in the past with other writers. But in this case, it is dead wrong and if it is the goal of Wikipedia to provide accurate material, then this article carrying such a disclaimer is not just misleading but downright false. I appreciate the extra info on the copyrighted images. Riverofrock (talk) 16:41, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
  • I understand that none of the prose was written by a band member, or someone ridiculously close to them. I do believe you there. However, the article was full of what we ("we" being wikipedia editors) call peacock words and statements written by someone without a neutral point of view. Your user page reads "A secondary mission is to promote Pennsylvania music on larger stages by using this data the construct article on worldwide systems such as Wikipedia". This isn't a bad thing, and I'm glad you have that disclaimer, but it does mean that you will probably write about your subjects in a very favorable light. My job is to make sure that nothing you say can't be supported by reliable, independent, third party sources. Those 80+ sources are great! but now we have to integrate them into the article. Again, I suggest you read the policy regarding inline citations. Once we get the article cleaned up, sourced, and remove all the advertising-ish material, we can remove the templates. Until then, they need to stay. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 17:38, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

• Nolelover, we do plan to go through all of our source material and dissect each and every assertion in the article to comply. But, I have to say that, as one who is new to the Wikipedia experience, your standards of neutrality seem to be rather selective. For example, check out this sentence:

The group came to be perceived as the embodiment of progressive ideals, seeing their influence extend into the social and cultural revolutions of the 1960s.

This was taken from the very first paragraph on the main article of The Beatles with NO inline citation to be found. How many millions of visitors to this page?

My point is - how many articles are NOT in a favorable light? I thought the whole idea of Wikipedia was to provide information from multiple users. If it is your believe that something unfavorable is being omitted, then won't that ultimately be added anyway?

The River of Rock just put the information we had. If the editors do not like our tone or writing style, edit it out (as it appears you already have). But the disclaimer is totally over the top and probably meant to chill our desire to write future articles. Riverofrock (talk) 21:03, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

• I think you are slightly overreacting to the disclaimer. "Maintenance tags" like these can be found on most articles and aren't regarded as "disclaimers" per se. Think of it as an easy to-do list. In the case of the Beatles, statements found in the lead section usually aren't sourced, as they are generally more vague and encompassing. They are still sourced, just later on in the article. In the case of the Beatles, that happens in the Legacy section. Please don't think we're trying to scare you off! We need every editor we can get. BTW, if you put four tildes ("~~~~") at the end of your talk page messages, it will automatically put your signature. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:17, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

A1 The Film

You're not trying to delete what will become the film of the century, are you? ;) Peridon (talk) 20:47, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't get it. "Dialoge free"? WTHeck? "The viewer travels across the film to encounter human examples wandering, here & there some in streets and sometimes inside him and might come across others via nebula. Some of life’s alphabets like fire, water, man and woman all draw lines which interact amongst themselves at different levels revealing its private and domestic crisis by echo of sound and vision which are spun by a special scale / measure. I thought about tagging it as gibberish but...Have you any answers? :) Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:03, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. He's filmed things at random with no mike and is calling it art. There is an art in the wording - like my late mother used in her thesis, which won great acclaim but actually said absolutely nothing (a polite version of her own description...). (You don't have to call me cynical, but it helps.) Peridon (talk) 21:10, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

There again, it could be a machine translation and he really means he's a jelly do'nut... Peridon (talk) 21:11, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I am (in)famous among my friends for being able to talk about anything and sound smart, but this, this is a whole new level. I am in awe of...a new style of visualization, where man is in need of a new horizon, that is inaccessible until he experiences a span of inner tranquility which the film reflects and may be after a period of inner darkness. It all dissolves & melts in those cold nights where the stars of the universe play and fight. Like you said, jelly doughnut. :) -- Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:19, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

And there it goes... Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

As you know, I am back from vacation. I have quickly looked at the discussion page and I like the way you are dealing with things. You have my support. The most troubling thing is the merger of the novels into the article. Gib25 and I had decided that the novels didn't belong in the storyline section. Could you continue my discussion with Wood Elf? Vyeh (talk) 12:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

No prob. Like I said, I am slightly against the merge, but it was just me at that point. I'll also try to respond to all your talk page messages. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 13:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Keep up the work. I am busy catching up with RL, but I will look at my talk page, your talk page and the article talk page every few days or so. Vyeh (talk) 06:07, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Alright. Tell me when you can devote a bit more time to WP, and we can start the next steps in the process. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 16:37, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

What do you think we should address next? Vyeh (talk) 09:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Unless you think any areas of the article need drastic improvement or a rewrite, I think we could start getting different people who have expressed interest in the past to review the article. We do need to decide about Caviar though. That section either needs to be referenced, or taken out. Other then that, is there anything from your checklist that still needs to be done before we send it to be reviewed? Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 01:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I'll try to look at the Caviar section. Vyeh (talk) 11:49, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

And other then that, I think we should start asking people to review it. I was thinking of posting on the VG talk page for reviewers. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 13:29, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

As you can tell, I'm pretty busy in RL so this would be a good time for a review. I would hope that we can get a B-rating and a review would help us focus our efforts toward a GA/A rating. Feel free to take the Caviar material out and move it to the discussion page. I do believe that if it can be sourced, it will be a valuable addition to the development history section. I will ask Kilkakon if he will give the article a quick read. As you probably know, I have asked Guyinblack25 for his recommendation as to what review channel we should seek. It might be good to wait for him before asking for a review at VG, although asking individuals who have demonstrated interest in the past on their talk page would be OK. Vyeh (talk) 02:53, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Kilkakon: "The Plot, Setting is confusing. "Immediately prior to the start of the game, a reactor malfunction wakes the crew and colonists early and irreparably severs communications with Earth." Which ship? Which crew? The paragraph seems to start SMAX and then jump to SMAC without explaination.

Story also unfolds using interludes, and should be included in the little list there.

"it is suppose to be" should have a D in there.

The "Terraforming is a natural outgrowth..." to end seems like it should be its own paragraph, it doesn't really run from the previous sentence clearly.

"They were able to incorporate many suggestions into the retail version." Fits the paragraph but seems like it should be a part of the previous.

"Civilization V will include a new win condition, the completion of the Utopia project, which is reminiscent of the Ascent to Transcendence secret project." We should know this by now, right?

Overall pretty good though."

Can you take care of these? Vyeh (talk) 19:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

No prob. I'll get to them tomorrow. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 00:13, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. These are the broad issues I believe we need to address before asking for a review: (1) Caviar (best if you deal with the infobox controversy so I can do this); (2) infobox - (a) system requirements for Mac and Linux; (b) consideration of eliminating series, mode and version fields; (c) consideration of merger of SMAC and SMAX infoboxes; (3) use of SMAX cover art (I have started discussions at VG project and at Media Copyright board); (4) elimination of Legacy section (I don't like the idea of Ely's novels being considered a legacy - it is not the same situation as the Lord of the Rings movies which had a greater impact than the original books! - and I think ending the article on the strong positive critical acclaim is better; I have been editing the legacy section with this in mind; (5) External Links (it does not conform to VG policy that mandates the website of the publisher(s); I know the Mac and Windows no longer have info about SMAC on their sites, but that is beside the point; readers might be interested in the pulishers. As someone said, there are no compromises. There is a right and a wrong. I believe right is to follow the VG guidelines and not for us to try to interpret WP policy on external links. After these are settled, it might be a good idea to have a friend in the Guild of Copyeditors do a quick read and point out any issues. Since Guyinblack25 has already copyedited the article, all we are looking for is someone who is not familiar with the game to approach the article from that perspective. Vyeh (talk) 02:50, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Very good. I'm working on the whole infobox thing, although I'm currently talking to a wall. I'd advise you to just go ahead and put the ex-links in, while putting a new note on the talk page explaining the exact policy that dictates this. And I think I can ask SMasters to look over the article. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 14:29, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

And now that I have more time...

(1) I'll leave Caviar to you. (2) I think we should seriously consider merging the i-boxes. (3) So far, I think no one has really objected very hard to having the SMAX cover, and I would guess that it stays in. If we keep it in, we probably leave two seperate i-boxes. (4) I agree with you, and like you said, consensus does not require unanimity. Woodelf has not been involved in the building of this article, and I say we split the book stuff out. (5) Put the publishers back in. The guidelines demand it, and, of course, we must follow the letter of the law exactly! ;) When we're done, I'll put in a special request to the GOCE to have it copyedited. It's also interesting to note that GiB25 thinks we should go straight to GAN. I kind of agree with him. What's the worst that could happen? Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 18:09, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Take a look at my talk page and Guyinblack25's talk page in the respective SMAC sections. Note Guyinblack25 isn't finished with copyediting, so hold off on getting anyone else in. Also note the paths toward review and especially GAN! Vyeh (talk) 18:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Good Article by Christmas! =D Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 18:38, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Also, I suggest you note this. Looks like we need to have the first infobox expanded. Still not sure about the second. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 18:42, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Not sure about that. Originally, I had the image showing, so infobox isn't completely collapsed. Also not sure how WP:ACCESS applies. Vyeh (talk) 19:04, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

TBH, I'm not either. Anyway though, I'm fine with the lead infobox being expanded. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 20:52, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

We can collapse some of the fields, so it is ok for the box to be expanded. Vyeh (talk) 18:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Good. I'm glad that's over. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:50, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

You're doing a good job leading the editing. As you know, I had to deal with a lot of issues involving the merger and a certain individual disappeared after the merger occurred. The two infoboxes occurred because someone other than me executed the merger. I would have consolidated the infobox at the time. As far as a collapsed infobox, collapsed fields will serve my interest, which is to keep the infobox from being too long. Ideally, it should be no longer than the lead section.

Ok. I'll leave you to that. That's not at all my area of expertise. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 23:08, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

John McLean (furniture maker)

I appreciate your comments are designed to make an an article more readable and relevant. However, I am unsure why you find the article on John Maclean reads like an advertsement. What, exactly, do you think is being advertised? John Maclean is long dead, so it ain't him. No one is currently selling his furniture (as far as I am aware). References to Sothebys and Bonhams gives the furniture 'status', so is allowable. Statements such as 'best of his era' are referenced. (Wikipedia's guidelines say: 'All information about companies and products are written in an objective and unbiased style.') This article seems to meet those requirements. Your help would be appreciated. Shipsview (talk) 11:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I tagged it as an advert because it says that, "He was recognized as one of the best of his era, representing the very best in English cabinetmaking." Your two sources for that statement are either bad links, or have nothing to do with the article at all. You might want to look at that. It also gives prices for some of his furniture, which I don’t think is allowed. Hope this helps! Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 14:53, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The broken link has been corrected. The auction house happens to have two pieces for sale by this furniture maker. Neither make exactly the same statement: 'one of the best of his era', but they do comment favourably on John McLean, and so it is a relevant link. Please remove this unsightly banner. I think Wikipedia needs to look at how editors, who do a difficult job well, spoil the look and feel of articles they have concerns about. There must be a better way? perhaps you have some ideas? Shipsview (talk) 22:32, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I've cleaned it up a bit, and removed the prices given for some of his auctioned furniture. As for the ref, Mallet Antiques, and Bonhams for that matter, don't really help. All you've done is point me to a home page. Is there a page on those websites that has the information you have in the article? What do Mallet and Bonhams have to do with our late friend McLean? In the article, you say that McLean was "was recognized as one of the best of that era, representing the best in English cabinetmaking." You need a reliable, third party source that makes that claim. If I'm writing an article on Wal-mart, I don't go to the Wal-mart website to source a comment that says that "Wal-mart is the worlds greatest store". Of course they're going to say good things about themselves - they have a conflict of interest. I think we have this problem with Mallet and Bonhams. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 19:41, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Happy Halloween!

Wilhelmina Will has given you some caramel and a candy apple! Caramel and candy-coated apples are fun Halloween treats, and promote WikiLove on Halloween. Hopefully these have made your Halloween (and the proceeding days) much sweeter. Happy Halloween! If Trick-or-treaters come your way, add {{subst:Halloween apples}} to their talkpage with a spoooooky message!

Cheers! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 04:47, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Yum, thanks! I love caramel. Even better, I've got a real one in my hand :) Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 23:07, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Congrats

		The Order of the Superior Scribe of Wikipedia
		Thank you for your exceptional work during the October wikification drive, which brought you up to the leaderboard. To participate in discussion relating to the next drive, go here. MessageDeliveryBot (talk) 06:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WP:WWF/D/2010/O at 06:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC).

Barnstar from WikiProject Wikify

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For your excellent work in the October 2010 Wikification Drive, you are awarded The Wikilink Barnstar! Thanks for your work!  Ⓢock  23:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Message from WikiProject Wikify

A message from WikiProject Wikify! Thanks for participating in the October 2010 Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive! We made significant progress, wikifying hundreds of articles. However, the backlog still needs a large amount of effort--discussions about the next drive (in December) are underway. Until then, happy editing!  Ⓢock  00:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Invitation to the December 2010 Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive

 Ⓢock  00:01, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Littlest Pet Shop (TV series)

I rewrote the article to be about the 1995-1996 TV series which is notable. The so called 2011 version was a hoax. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 02:17, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. I have withdrawn the nomination. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 02:22, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Urban Agricultural Architecture

Nolelover,

I have some other references including Sweetwater Organic's write-up in the new york times. Tyring to keep it simple right now, is there something particular you would like to see? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trussoni (talk • contribs) 03:21, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

More references! If you have a NYT write up then we can take the "Notability" and "Refimprove" tags off. I wikified the article, and it looks pretty good. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 14:46, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I added the reference with another line explaining. Please remove the tags of let me know what else you would like to see. I know it can be improved and I plan on doing so, if you have any suggestions I would like to hear them. You are pretty on top of this for a 15 year old, I am impressed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trussoni (talk • contribs) 17:11, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Between school, Wikipedia and Runescape, I have no life. :) As for the article, the more reliable references you have, the less likely the article will be deleted, or merged. You might want to expand a little on what exactly UAA is. In other words, how is it different from Urban farming? When I see the title "Urban Agricultural Architecture", I think of a company, rather then a agricultural technique. Looks good so far though. -- Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:09, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Nolelover, dispite my complement you are way off base on both your critisisms of my pages. The refernces provided are accurate and validate the entries. As PhD professor I know these sources are published in establsihed journals. Please take the time to read the publications and remove your comments on my pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trussoni (talk • contribs) 20:06, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for not replying sooner! Vacation, term papers, and plain-ole forgetfulness have conspired to keep this hidden away.

First of all, your having a PhD really doesn't mean a whole lot here on WP. And I'm not disputing the validity of the sources anyways. All I'm asking is, what is Urban Agricultural Architecture? How is it different from Urban farming, and why does it deserve its own article? Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 17:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

November 2010 backlog elimination drive update

Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors Backlog Elimination Drive! GOCE November 2010 backlog elimination drive progress graphs We have reached the midway point in our backlog elimination drive, so here is an update. Participation report — The November drive has 53 participants at this point. We had 77 participants in the September drive. In July, 95 people signed up for the drive, and in May we had 36. If you are not participating, it is not too late to join! Progress report — The drive is quite successful so far, as we have already almost reached our target of a 10% reduction in the number of articles in the backlog. We are doing very well at keeping our Requests page clear, as those articles count double for word count for this drive. Please keep in mind the possibility of removing other tags when you are finished with an article. If the article no longer needs {{cleanup}}, {{wikify}}, or other similar maintenance tags, please remove them, as this will make the tasks of other WikiProjects easier to complete. Thanks very much for participating in the Drive, and see you at the finish line! Your drive coordinators –The UtahraptorTalk to me/Contributions, S Masters (talk), and Diannaa (Talk)

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of The Utahraptor (talk) at 16:27, 14 November 2010 (UTC).

GOCE Drive – Final push

Greetings GOCE Backlog elimination drive participant, We are now coming up to the last few days of the drive, the last for 2010. Currently, it looks like we will achieve our target for reducing the backlog by 10%, however, we still have huge numbers for 2009. We have 55 participants in this drive. If everyone just clears 2 articles each, we will reduce the backlog by a further 110 articles. If everyone can just do 3 articles, we will hit 165. If you have yet to work on any articles and have rollover words, remember that you do need to copyedit at least a couple of articles in this drive for your previous rollover to be valid for the next drive. There are many very small articles that will take less than 5-10 minutes to copyedit. Use CatScan to find them. Let's all concentrate our firepower on the first three months of 2009 as we approach the end of this final drive for the year. Thank you once again for participating, and see you at the finish line! – SMasters (talk) 04:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

The December 2010 Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive is about to begin!

Get ready. The December 2010 Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive is about to begin. Prep your keyboards, as the drive aims to wikify over 2,000 articles this month. We're going to need all the firepower we can get, so please get your friends to join up as well. In case you didn't know, wikification is fairly simple: just add wiki markup, links, and similar ". Thanks for joining; we're looking forward to an exciting time this month! Regards, Ancient Apparition (talk · contribs), Mono (talk · contribs), Nolelover (talk · contribs), and Sumsum2010 (talk · contribs).

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of Wikiproject Wikify at 00:42, 27 November 2010 (UTC).

Next drive

As you are either a participant of WikiProject or the October wikification drive or have signed up to participate in the planned December drive, this probably concerns you. Discussions that have been inactive for a couple weeks regarding the December drive have been reactivated, and we would like you to participate in these discussions, and also consider joining the December drive. We have taken upon ourselves a massive workload, encompassing a backlog reaching June 2008 and comprising 0 articles. Barnstars will be awarded to participating editors, and also, please invite your friends to join! Please do not reply to this message here. Either reply here, here or here.

For the December Drive Coordinators, WikiCopter (talk · contribs).

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 23:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC).

Invitation to particpate in the December 2010 Wikification Drive

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 18:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC).

Talkback

Hello, Alyo. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:WWF#Straw_Poll.
Message added 01:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

GOCE elections

Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors Elections are currently underway for our inaugural Guild coordinators. The voting period will run for 14 days: 00:01 UTC, Friday 1 December – 23:59 UTC, Tuesday 14 December. All GOCE members in good standing, as well as past participants of any of the Guild's Backlog elimination drives, are eligible to vote. There are six candidates vying for four positions. The candidate with the highest number of votes will become the Lead Coordinator, therefore, your vote really matters! Cast your vote today.

Sent on behalf of the Guild of Copy Editors via SMasters using AWB on 01:53, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

The December 2010 Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive has begun!

Get going. The December 2010 Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive has begun. Please get started, as the drive aims to wikify over 2,000 articles this month. We're going to need all the firepower we can get, so please remind your friends to join up as well. In case you didn't know, wikification is fairly simple: just add wiki markup, links, and similar formatting. Thanks for joining; we're looking forward to an exciting time this month! Regards, Ancient Apparition (talk · contribs), Mono (talk · contribs), Nolelover (talk · contribs), and Sumsum2010 (talk · contribs).

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 02:25, 2 December 2010 (UTC).

November 2010 Backlog Elimination Drive Conclusion

Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors Backlog Elimination Drive! We have reached the end of our fourth backlog elimination drive. Thanks to all who participated. Stats GOCE November 2010 backlog elimination drive graphs 58 people signed up for this drive. Of these, 48 people participated in the drive. Although we did not eliminate the months we planned to (January, February, and March 2009; and August, September, and October 2010), we did reduce the backlog by 627 articles (11.2%), which was over our goal of 10%. 49 awards will go out to 33 of 48 participants. Check out the complete list of barnstar winners here. Barnstars If you copy edited at least 4,000 words, you qualify for a barnstar. If you participated in the September 2010 backlog elimination drive, you may have earned roll-over words (more details can be found here). These roll-over words count as credit towards earning barnstars, except for leaderboard awards. We will be delivering these barnstars within the next couple of weeks. Our next drive is scheduled for January 2011. In the meantime, please consider helping out at the Wikification drive or any of the other places where help with backlogs is needed. Thank you for participating in the last 2010 backlog elimination drive! We look forward to seeing you in January! Your drive coordinators –The UtahraptorTalk to me/Contributions, S Masters (talk), and Diannaa (Talk)

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors at 23:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC).

FSU uniforms

The section in question is for non-standard uniforms, like the Pro Combat and Unconquered uniforms, which I'm still working on and will be posted when it's done. Since you're most likely more knowledgeable about the Noles' uniforms, maybe you could add some text to the section talking about the uniforms so it's not just images. --Kevin W. 07:11, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll try, but as far as I know, that was a one time thing. Thanks for clearing that up though. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 14:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, it doesn't have to be just about the one-time uniforms. --Kevin W. 21:30, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, in that case, wouldn't it be better to have the unis you made in that section versus the i-box? Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

No, I meant the description, not the images. --Kevin W. 21:38, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I understand. But I was just wondering if that section would be a better place for both images. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:42, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

No, the main uniforms should stay in the infobox, since that's standard for all sports uniforms. Also, when did FSU wear the white jersey-white pants combo? --Kevin W. 22:21, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Last year, versus USF. They've done it a couple of times recently. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 22:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure it was this year? I thought they only wore garnet-gold and white-gold in their games this year. --Kevin W. 22:58, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant they didn't wear the white-white this year. Last year against USF was the most recent time. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 04:18, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. --Kevin W. 00:41, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Also, when did they last wear the garnet pants? --Kevin W. 08:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, that's a tough one. TBH, I have no idea. It's been a while, and definitely not in the last two years. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 16:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Someone else just told me. The last time they wore them on the road was in 2007 against Florida and they wore the all-garnet for the 2007 Music City Bowl. --Kevin W. 21:06, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that would make sense. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:16, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I've uploaded the garnet and white pants images. --Kevin W. 21:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Looks great. I assume you know you changed the name of the Procombat file - adding a "2009" to the end? Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 22:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that just in case FSU wears another Pro Combat uniform in the future. --Kevin W. 00:17, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

So shouldn't you keep the present file until then? And I have a feeling it's a one-time thing. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 02:55, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, there was only one version of the file and it has since been updated on my computer (and is close to being finished), and I don't have the ability to move it to the correct filename. I lose nothing by letting it be automatically deleted. Also, never say never. I loved FSU's Pro Combat (that helmet would look fantastic in combination with the Unconquered uniform) and I think it'd be awesome to see other variants on that design. The feather on the pants looked especially good. --Kevin W. 04:00, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

So you are updating it? That's all I wanted to know. And I could not stand those Pro Combat unis! If our equipment building burns to the ground, the one good thing would be the loss of those God-awful Nikes. :) I wouldn't mind the helmet with the Unconquered uniform, but otherwise... Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 16:11, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm not really updating it too much. There are just a few minor fixes to the template that need to be applied. --Kevin W. 21:13, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Right. I just wanted to make sure you had a new one file you were getting ready. Thanks for everything you've done, BTW. Not many people are able to do what you are able to do. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 23:07, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I've got a copy, and thanks. --Kevin W. 02:08, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Chomsky (band)

Hello Nolelover. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Chomsky (band), a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Signed for a notable label (Idol) is enough for CSD. PROD or take to AfD if required. Thank you. GedUK  11:01, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion converted to PROD: Chun-nan

Hello Nolelover. I am just letting you know that I have converted the speedy deletion tag that you placed on Chun-nan to a proposed deletion tag, because I do not believe CSD applies to the page in question. Thank you. Courcelles 23:19, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay. I have noticed admins deleting articles as "eligible subjects", though (usually linking to A7). You don't think this would be a candidate? Just wondering. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 02:21, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Probably because it leads to drama, and that there's very little consensus as to what, exactly, establishes notability for fictional things, fictional subjects are excluded from A7. The closest thing is actually A3, but it doesn't fit either. Courcelles 04:52, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 15:00, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Template help

Any chance you can help me with this, or could you point me in the direction of someone who can? --Kevin W. 03:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I personally can't, but instead of posting on the talk page of a minor template that nobody watches, ask here. This is the talk page for the entire CFB WikiProject, and it's pretty busy. You'll get your answer there, if nowhere else. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 14:57, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. --Kevin W. 20:11, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

No prob. Nolelover ^{It's football season!} 21:02, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} wishes you a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year! May this be a time of peace, joy and goodwill towards men.

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:Wikipedia:CONTRIB/Holidays/Christmas1}} to your friends' talk pages.

Talkback

Hello, Alyo. You have new messages at Giftiger wunsch's talk page.
Message added 11:20, 16 December 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

IRC

Please come to IRC now, there is a discussion you might want to take part in. Please connect here. WikiCopter (radio • sorties • images • simplicity • lost • defense • attack) 02:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas
and a Happy New Year
to you and your family.

May your day be filled with
pleasant surprises.
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Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of Sumsum2010 (talk) at 04:13, 20 December 2010 (UTC).

Please confirm your membership

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 20:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC).

Christmas Card

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Merry Christmas At this festive time, I would like to say a very special thank you to my fellow editors, and take the time to wish you and your loved ones a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year. And, in case you can't wait until the big day, I've left you each three special presents, click to unwrap :) Acather96 (talk) 10:10, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

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The December 2010 Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive Needs Your Help!

Please help! The December 2010 Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive is almost complete. Please help, as the backlog has begun to climb back up. Already exceeding 20,000 articles! The backlog was down to 19,275, let's try to put it back down there by the end of the drive! We're going to need all the firepower we can get, so please remind your friends to help as well.Thanks for all your help thus far! Regards, Ancient Apparition (talk · contribs), Mono (talk · contribs), Nolelover (talk · contribs), Sumsum2010 (talk · contribs), and WikiCopter (talk · contribs).

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of Wikiproject Wikify at 01:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC).

GOCE Year-end Report

Season's Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors We have reached the end of the year, and what a year it has been! The Guild of Copy Editors was full of activity, and we achieved numerous important milestones in 2010. Read all about these in the Guild's 2010 Year-End Report. Highlights Membership grows to 503 editors 2,589 articles removed through four Backlog elimination drives Our encounter with Jimbo Wales Guild home pages reorganized and redesigned Report on our inaugural elections Guild Plans for 2011 New barnstars introduced Requests page improved Sign up for the January 2011 Backlog elimination drive! Get your copy of the Guild's 2010 Year-End Report here On behalf of the Guild, we take this opportunity to wish you Season's Greetings and Happy New Year. See you in 2011! – Your Coordinators: S Masters (lead), Diannaa, The Utahraptor, and Tea with toast.

Sent on behalf of the Guild of Copy Editors using AWB on 06:36, 31 December 2010 (UTC)