328cia

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Nissan Be-1

Nice translation cleanup on this article! For more like that, see the article list at the bottom of User:Ek-10stToyama. --Geniac 19:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Data tables

Dear Michael

I took another look at one of the tables: since presumably the format you use in German wiki is the starting point for the format you would apply to anglophone wiki. I picked the de:VW 411 because I know the car slightly well: my father had one. (He liked to be different, I guess. Actually, it was a lot more comfortable for passengers than the 1600 (Typ 3) Variant it replaced.) I have questions. I do not necessarily need answers, but they are things you might think about when minimizing ambiguities in future tables:

You give a range of values for top speed and 0-100 acceleration even where the engine specification is the same. I GUESS that the lightest car is quicker and the heaviest is slower. I GUESS than the 4 door sedan was heavier than the 3 door Variant and that the 2 door sedan was lighter than either. But (1) I might be wrong and (2) is there a way the table can remove my need to guess without introducing overmuch complexity? I honestly do not know the answer to my question: but that is a lousy reason not to share the question with you.

Fuel consumption: same considerations except that the answers may be more complex, especially as the Brits and the Americans cannot even agree on the size of a gallon.

Weight. Same considerations.

With weight there is the added complication that one generally depends on the manufacturers’ figure (I think). I do not know how standardised these are. If you have a 70 l fuel tank, you can easily add 100 kg to the weight by putting fuel in the tank, water in the radiator, oil in the sump and gear box, a tool kit and jack in the boot/trunk. Maybe this one is a fuss about nothing and there are standard assumptions that are applied and which everyone knows except me. But if not, now might be a good time to think how this impacts on tabulated data.

You have two values for Track (Spurweite). Is this because they changed it between the 411 and the 412? Or because you have two sources that disagree? Or?

I personally would prefer it if either (1) you put all the values that differ according to column together or else (2) you repeat the column headings where, AFTER having merged the columns for data concerning which all versions share common data, you THEN return to individual columns. However, that is down to (1) my taste and / or (2) the way I use my eyes and / or (3) the way I have configured my screen. Other people might think differently.

I am not sure about ‘Alimentation’ for ‘Gemischaufbereitung’. Trouble is, I am not sure I have a better idea. I wondered about ‘Fuel feed’ but that’s not perfect either. But ‘Alimentation’ makes me think of human alimentation as in ‘bacon with eggs’.

I’m not sure about the prices either for anglophone readers. In England was had inflation above 20% several years in the 1970s, and dollar inflation was also higher than for the DM. After about 1968 UK / US prices changed quite a lot every year until the Mid 1980s, and there have been several smaller inflationary surges in comparison with the DEM/EUR block since then. Unless you have a whole table showing different price ranges every year, the prices don’t tell the anglophone reader too much. But IF you strongly disagree, how about having a ‘price competitor’ for the major markets in which the thing sold. ZB

Preis (ab DM): 7.770 (Opel Rekord ab DEM X.XXX) 1968

For English readers, more interested in the GBP price, the price setter tends to be a Ford (Escort / Cortina / Granada) and in truth Ford probably have been the UK market price setter for many sectors much of the last 50 years, though they (like others) benefited (and made huge UK profits) for much of that period from the political pressures to avoid exposing the inefficiencies of other UK manufacturers by pricing too aggressively against (for example) Austin / Morris.

Please do not be depressed that I send you so much text in one message, please: I am bad at succinct. I am sure, too, that you have done a huge amount of thinking about these tables – much more than I have done. But some of my reactions may differ from yours: and now is a better time for me to share initial reactions than after you have done another 50 tables! I suspect, also, that it makes sense not to start with articles that are followed by too many people with strong opinions. Don’t start with the Civic or the Corolla and probably not with the Golf or the Mini. If Noah’s ark had been designed by a committee of 250 it would surely have quickly sunk. Just thinking on paper, you understand: and drifting rapidly off topic.

Time to stop. Regards Charles01 (talk) 19:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:AR73.jpg)

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Radiator Coolant

After tweaking your tables (1200 Coupe & 133 Seats) I checked out radiator and found out the US does indeed talk about engines being liquid cooled. So I checked out Volkswagen K70 and found that 'water cooled' had been used there. Then I remembered they didn't sell too many K70s (if any) in the US. BUT I checked out the VW Passat entry, and there 'water cooled' has been used and apparently not reverted. That led me to Water cooling which again indicates that 'water cooled' works stateside. So I THINK 'water cooled' works both sides of the Atlantic whereas 'liquid cooled' works only west of Greenland. But (as often) I reserve the right to be wrong. PS Looks good on the Seat articles I think. PPS The (hide) / (show) toggle is in a smaller font size than the same toggle switch for the 'other models' list. At my age (>21) I find both fonts too small, but at least I think the toggle bit should use the same font size for both togglers. But I'm not wiki smart enough to have the faintest idea how to do anything about it. And of course others might not agree with me in the first place.

Regards Charles01 (talk) 16:40, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

If «liquid cooling» indeed is US use, please blame my «Car&Driver» subscription. In German, you have «Wasserkühlung» as kind of a colloquial term and «Flüssigkeitskühlung» as a more technically correct term. Will return to «water» from now on. Thanks, --328cia (talk) 17:01, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Splitting VW Golf

{{help}} I´m planning on splitting the huge VW Golf article into separate entries for the single generations. Can this be done as a simple copy-and-paste operation? I´m asking because on de.wp they´re making a lot of fuss about migrating the article`s history and I´m not familiar with the methods employed on en:wp. Thank you very much in advance. --328cia (talk) 22:38, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi 328cia. No, we don't migrate the history for article splits but the fact that you're asking before diving in is very much to your credit. Please see Wikipedia:Summary style. A bit of relevant language from that page: "Whenever you break up a page, please note the split (including the page names between double square brackets) in the edit summary. Add {{Main}} to the top of the section that is being split out, to indicate where the main article for that section is." Feel free to drop by my user page for any reason.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

kW

Hi, check my userpage, there is some examples to convert kW to PS and bhp, I think these are suitable for European cars rgds --— Typ932^{T | C}  17:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I have started using this general convert template instead Auto templates, I think we should get rid of those Auto templates in near future, there might be some differences between Auto and Convert templates with hp values because it can mean "old" us hp or more general hp used nowadays. --— Typ932^{T | C}  17:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes here is big mess with these power figures (too many different ones), quite often here is PS,CV or our hv .) marked as bhp, and when using autoscript like I have it can convert those like PS, but then someone will probably notice it and fix it... --— Typ932^{T | C}  18:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

kw/hps,bhps

Yep I noticed there are wrongly inserted bhp as PS, if you insert 148 bhp it gives 150 PS?, I know there might be some issues with the template convert, I think we should point it at Template talk:Convert, here is my original request for the conversion [[1]], if you notice what should be corrected could you write to that convert talk page, this should be easy to fix because those PS,bhp are maybe mostly used in automobile articles? The reason I would like to use only convert is that it should be in general Wikipedia standard, some of those Auto templates has already been rejected. --— Typ932^{T | C}  18:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The reason I dont fix all bhps,hps are that maybe some peeps (not you:) gets an idea what to write..this is very tricky here in en wikipedia ... but in other europe it is so easy as everybody has same PS,HV,CV etc and kW. Ill try to use kW to new cars when ever the data is available, but for older people it takes time to get used on kWs.... --— Typ932^{T | C}  18:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Hehe seems that you have "find" same problems as me ,) Im also sick of those model years, as the template clearly says production time, if some uses model years that should not be general standard, seems there are also used model years in some automotive timeline templates......generally speaking these should be same in all tmelines.. . Easters also --— Typ932^{T | C}  19:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Model years

Cant find now but there should be something in automobile talk archives here is short one, but there should be more in archives I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles/Archive_11#Model_year_vs_production_year_started

--— Typ932^{T | C}  19:18, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

And if you look Template:Infobox Automobile there is clearly stated as production: year range when the car was produced

--— Typ932^{T | C}  19:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry

Could you explain the difference between PS and hp? I thought PS was simply German for this. Squash Racket (talk) 13:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. But how do we know if those who inserted the original data used PS and hp correctly or simply confused the two? For example German-speakers might have referred to hp data as PS and vice versa. Squash Racket (talk) 13:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Just spotted the conversation above this section. Thanks for the info. Squash Racket (talk) 14:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Top 10 best selling cars in Germany

Dear Michael

Do you know if there is an article equivalant to this one: Top 10 best selling cars in Britain for the German market in German wiki, please?

(If you know Italian wiki well, same question for Italian wiki)

I tried finding one but couldn't. I could try recreating it from Auto Motor & Sport, but finding the right copies for each year (I guess February second or third week ... but that's easy to check) would be a long job because I have the old ones in boxes under boxes of old toys / furniture / whatever in the loft. (English houses don't have cellars: at least this one doesn't.)

I ask because someone wrote somewhere that the Ford Escort was top seller in Europe and Ford Sierra was second beset seller in Europe. That IS true for some years in the 1980s for the UK, but I think NOT for Germany and NOT for Europe as a whole. I think the Golf always outsold the Escort in Germany - probably also in Belgium. I suspect the Kadett did too. And I think the Sierra was (1) far too large to outsell the Fiat 127 across Europe and (2) in Germany and Nederland usually outsold by the Ascona. But maybe I misremember. Anyhow, since Germany was and remains the largest 'national' market in Europe, I thought that would be a good place to start looking for the evidence to support or refute my (all too fallible) memory.

Don't take hours with this, please. But if you can point me quickly to a de:wiki page on this that I missed, thank you im voraus. I might even translate it....

Best wishes Charles01 (talk) 20:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

New family member

Congratulations. I guess they must have struck oil under the Bodensee.... But I do respect those ones, somehow: that was still before the bean counters started chipping away at the bits the punters don't see. Seriously, I'd be too mean to do similar even if I could afford it, but my father did something not dissimilar shortly before the 73 Oil shock. Bad timing. I'm afraid we stick with our old Previa and our older Toledo (which I see as 90% as good as a BMW 320 for 60% of the price with the bonus of rather a nice diesel engine, though I think your own perspective might be different) and our 1992 Polo which we still love dearly and which still uses petrol. So strictly practical until the diesel runs out... Charles01 (talk) 18:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Lost in translation?

I just spotted you here, & seeing you speak Italian, & know your cars, I thought I'd give this a shot. Can you have a look at the Italian of this & see if the English badly butchered the meaning? Also, have a glance at this (& the Bandini talk page) for questions you may be able to answer. And if you can't, but you know of somebody who might, pass this along? Thanx. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 05:40, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

No worries on the delay, I've been waiting since August for my local library to get off the dime on bringing a book in, & I'm still waiting. The concerns are on the talk page, as mentioned, or have a look at Charles01's under Journey to Babel. Any help you can be will be much appreciated. And, on a personal note, sorry to here you're not contributing much, which makes me doubly appreciative for the effort. Thanks a bunch. Ciao. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 01:30, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Where are you it's 02.00? ;D It's about 17.40 local here. No hurry (as noted), just trolling for help on it wherever I can get it. ;) It feels like Bandini's a bit orphaned, low on the priorities, so I've kind of adopted it. And, not to beat it to death (I hope), if you know a car guy who might have sources, send him over, too, OK? Thanks again. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 01:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, I´m in Germany - took a look at the subject, and I have to tell you that after translating almost 60 books on automotive subjects, I still haven`t heard of that Bandini; so I`m probably not much of a help here, except for looking at the Italian text that seems to be written very well. Here´s to Leslie Nielsen`s home (more or less). --328cia (talk) 02:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

On behalf of Lt. Drebin (& his somewhat famous brother), I thank you. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 03:13 & 03:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

What makes you think you don't (somewhere)? ;D TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 04:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I've been holding my breath to see if you might be tempted into this one. I'm glad you have been. I've worked through maybe the first 60% of the text so that now it looks more English, and I've been trying (1) to respect the Italian while (2) not removing or changing bits that have been added only in the English and (3) avoiding nonsense. But I never formally learned Italian, and while I could fluently choose and order a pizza in Umbria - maybe even when I was younger in Campania - I think this stuff will come much more easily to you than to me. As for Sig Bandini, I hadn't heard of him befpre either. I think he may have been better remembered in North America (and presumably in Forli) than in the rest of Europe. Anhyhow, for me one of the best things about contributing translation work to wikipedia is the chance to learn. And (given that I don't think the whole thing is a colossal hoax) Bandini does seem to have been quite a chap.... Success Charles01 (talk) 10:13, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Ditto. This has been hanging fire waiting on my local library since, oh, July, so another mo/2 won't kill us. (I may practice an ancient Martian meditation technique 1x or 2x, tho. :D) J'onn J'onzz ^{it's not easy being green}

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