Template talk:Alternative medicine sidebar/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Eugenics.

What does eugenics have to do with pseido-medicine? --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 18:53, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Well, it involves peoples health, so it is medicine-related, and has, at least historically, had a pseudoscientific aspect (or at least it's ps today, it may not have been at the time). Scrolling through the article, this doesn't seem to be the focus of it, so the connection may be rather weak (similar to scientific racism discussed above). Funnily enough, Nazi eugenics doesn't mention pseudo-anything. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:03, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Apitherapy, again

It's been discussed at Template_talk:Alternative_medicine_sidebar/Archive_2#Apitherapy, but if I can get a consensus, I'd like to re-insert it. It seems to fit this sidebar like hand in glove. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:43, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

I'll take that as a yes. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:42, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Organisations?

Opinions on a section for orgs, like National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health, National University of Natural Medicine and Health freedom movement? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:30, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Template heading

Per [1] is "Alternative medicine" a better heading than "Alternative and pseudo‑medicine"? According to WP [2], they are pretty much the same thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree, as all the pages seems to protray all medicine possiblitly other than main stream as pseudo no need to put it here Shrikanthv (talk) 11:51, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

You're right, changed. Telsho (talk) 17:14, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

COVID-19 pandemic wording - it's not a conspiracy

I noticed that the COVID-19 link in the Conspiracies section goes to Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic but the wording shows as "COVID-19 pandemic" - that could be misread as implying that the pandemic itself is the conspiracy, rather than that there are conspiracy theories about the pandemic. Everything else in that section is wording more clearly eg anti-vaccine, HIV/AIDS denialism What about a change of wording to

• COVID-19 denialism
• COVID-19 origins conspiracies
• COVID-19 misinformation
• COVID-19 related conspiracies

- Amousey (they/them pronouns) (talk) 10:01, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

I would support 'COVID-19 misinformation' which mostly encompasses the others. Regarding the second and forth, they are not really conspiracies, they are conspiracy theories. - MrX 🖋 11:37, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Chemtrail conspiracy theory

I object to the addition of Chemtrail conspiracy theory to this template. Chemtrails are not a form of medicine or medical treatment. Gråbergs Gråa Sång rightfully removed this more than a year ago. - MrX 🖋 00:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

AIDS and COVID-19 aren't medicine either but it's relevant because they are the problem that medicine needs to cure. Altanner1991 (talk) 00:41, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, and both are medical conditions. Chemtrails are not. Chemtrails would be roughly as appropriate to include as Alien abduction. - MrX 🖋 00:47, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Well like I said chemtrails are "directly medical" because their article and introduction say so **directly** and with reliable sources. So it's medical like AIDS. Altanner1991 (talk) 00:53, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Current consensus per Template_talk:Alternative_medicine_sidebar/Archive_2#Medical_conspiracy_theories_—_alternative_and_pseudo‑medicine is to exclude it. Agree with MrX. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:35, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Related: Talk:Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory/Archive_9#Sidebar,_again. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:40, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for referencing the prior discussions where consensus had already been reached. I would now in light of this propose the removal of the sidebar's conspiracy section links to HIV/AIDS denialism, Discredited HIV/AIDS origins theories, OPV AIDS hypothesis, SARS (2003), and COVID-19 pandemic because they are also conspiracy theories regarding medical problems and not conspiracy theories regarding medical cures. I have read the prior discussions and this was the consensus reached, unless referring to the claims where chemtrails are never mentioned in the context of medicine in which case the current chemtrails article needs to remove those portions, rather than us removing the sidebar's links to non-cures. Either or even both must be removed to maintain a degree of consistency and professionalism. Thank you, Altanner1991 (talk) 14:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

I think your first link fits the sidebar very well based on HIV/AIDS_denialism#Denialist_community. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:13, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Granted and apologies. I have gone through the articles more thoroughly and would now retract from five links to only three: Discredited HIV/AIDS origins theories, SARS (2003), and COVID-19 pandemic. Altanner1991 (talk) 14:30, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

The connection between these and "Alternative and pseudo‑medicine" is much less obvious. WP also has "places" like Template:Conspiracy theories and Category:Medical-related conspiracy theories, so I don't think it's very wrong to remove them from this template, IMO stuff in it should have a reasonably obvious connection to the heading. I added the Covid one, but if I had noticed that there already was an entry for covid under "Fringe medicine and science" I wouldn't have.

If I may add a "doubtful" of my own, I don't think Parapsychology fits well here per Parapsychology#Scope. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:34, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, this template is due for much cleaning in the other areas too. The parapsychology I must admit has many mentions in the article, of actual psychiatrists etc, so it might be considered a fringe/alternative medicine in its own right. Altanner1991 (talk) 19:48, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

If you start weeding, remember to remove the sidebar from weeded articles per WP:BIDIRECTIONAL. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:44, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

I almost forgot, thanks. Altanner1991 (talk) 14:55, 8 August 2020 (UTC)