Wikipedia

Template:Did you know nominations/The Maiden in the Tower

< Template:Did you know nominations
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 09:09, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

The Maiden in the Tower

(
)
Sibelius c.1895
Sibelius c.1895
  • ... that The Maiden in the Tower, the only opera by Jean Sibelius (pictured), was withdrawn after only three performances with the intention to revise it, which never happened? Source: several
    • Reviewed: to come

Improved to Good Article status by Silence of Järvenpää (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 17:43, 11 September 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: No - can't really verify
  • Interesting: Yes
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.

QPQ: No - pending
Overall: There are no issues with the article, as expected from a GA. However, I am having trouble verifying the hook statements:

  • [...] and its significance is therefore primarily as a historical curiosity: Sibelius's lone opera. appears in the lede, but is not cited there; and I could find no cited statement that it is his only opera in the article body.
  • Sibelius withdrew The Maiden in the Tower after three performances, claiming that he wanted to revise the score. This is the sentence for the other parts of the hook mostly, but it's currently lacking a citation directly after the sentence. Could one be duplicated? –LordPeterII (talk) 18:37, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for checking. I found this but is is not specific to "after 3 performances" nor the revision. I hope Silence of Järvenpää can help- I am sure it's there in Finnish, but I can't find things there. Grimes2 provided a ref for "sole opera", and the one I found could also be used for it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:33, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
I reviewed now Template:Did you know nominations/Cathie Dunsford. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:52, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
From a BIS booklet: "three performances, then withdrawal". Grimes2 (talk) 20:06, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Hello, all... never been over to this part of WP, so I apologize in advance if I don't know all the ins and outs. Thank you for your labor to make a DYK for Sibelius's The Maiden in the Tower. If I understand correctly, there were two claims that you thought were essential as verification for the DYK but for which the sourcing looks weak. (1) The historical curiosity claim is mine, but yes, I cannot remember if I heard it somewhere else. Grimely is a possibility, since I have his book and skimmed the bit on the opera, but because it was largely duplicative of other sourses, I didn't end up citing it. (2) The claim about Sibelius withdrawing it after three performances is in nearly every source I consulted, as it's a key piece of the opera's mystique. The citation I provided for the sentence after this claim by Hannikainen (2020) was meant to include both sentences. As such, we can avoid the newly added Sibelius (2007) reference and just duplicate the Hannikainen reference. Moreover, the BIS recording—albeit its original release—is already listed as a source under Tawaststjerna (1983). Barnett (2007), too, can support this claim. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 20:34, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
  • Tawaststjerna (1983, p. 6): "Both the premiere and the two repeat performances were conducted by the composer with great success ... Sibelius refused, with the excuse that he first wanted to revise the score".
  • Barnett (2007, p. 109): "After conducting three performances in Helsinki in 1896, Sibelius refused a request for the opera to be performed in Mikkeli, claiming he wanted to revise it".
One thing I have a question about, just because I sometimes need help learning the rules: why was Swedish and Finnish de-Wikilinked in the lede? Thanks! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 20:35, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Also: The caption should read Sibelius c. 1895 for the photo... ignore the filename's use of 1885, as that was an error by me (dating pictures is hard, but this one is quite likely closer to 1895). ~ Silence of Järvenpää 20:38, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Welcome to DYK! - I changed the caption but you could have done it yourself ;) - We don't link to common terms, such as current countries, - re-add the links if you believe inviting a reader to leaving the article for them would be a good idea. I'll duplicate the two refs. DYK needs the ref after the sentence - you can remove it after DYK is over. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt, Grimes2, and Silence of Järvenpää: Thank you all, this resolves my reservations! @Silence of Järvenpää just for clarification, I don't mind the "curiosity" statement, because if it is the only one, that's rather obvious. My issue was that I couldn't yet verify it was, in fact, the only one. The second issue was of rather a technical nature, as Gerda explained, and is only important for DYK. As for the removal of wikilinks, that is somewhat subjective, but the reasoning behind it is explained in WP:OVERLINK.
Approve. –LordPeterII (talk) 15:57, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/The_Maiden_in_the_Tower&oldid=1110414210"