- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 07:22, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
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Scale insect
Formica fusca ants tending a herd of mealybugs
... that many scale insects are immobile as adults, their dispersal sometimes being assisted by ants or the wind?- ALT1:
... that some scale insects have a mutualistic relationship with ants? - ALT2:
... that scale insects cause billions of dollars' worth of damage to crops? - ALT3:
... that scale insects are the original source of both "crimson" and "scarlet"?
- ALT1:
- Reviewed: Deccan painting
- Comment: The image is for ALT1
Improved to Good Article status by Chiswick Chap (talk) and Cwmhiraeth (talk). Nominated by Cwmhiraeth (talk) at 10:14, 4 February 2020 (UTC).
Substantial GA, on good sources, no copyvio obvious. The image is licensed, but I don't see much on it that size. I like ALT3 best, but don't exactly get what "source" means here, and can't read beyond three dots in the Scarlet source, so don't see any mentioning of kermes, nor insects. Please help me to understand. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:10, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
- The article explains that both the red colour-names crimson and scarlet are related to kermes products, which are made from the tubes created by scale insects. As the article states (with citations) "Crimson" is by etymology cognate with the dyestuff "kermes", both from Arabic qirmizī (for the colour and the insect), while scarlet is from the Arabic word siklāt for luxury silks dyed with kermes. All these things are reliably cited in the article. Hope this helps. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, not quite. No problem with "crimson", but I see the ref for "scarlet" (#23) only until "quę vulgo rasilis …", and until there, see no reference to any insects, nor to kermes. You can tell me that it comes later, and I'll believe you, or explain what I misunderstand. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:33, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, it's later in that ref. You will also find the same thing in Netherton, Robin; Owen-Crocker, Gale R. (2008). Medieval Clothing and Textiles. Boydell & Brewer. p. 22. ISBN 978-1-84383-366-6.
Munro believes that the morphology of siklātun had an influence on the formation of the word "scarlet" in the European languages in question, and also that the extremely expensive dyestuffs used in the Arab silks mentioned above constituted the bridging element in the association between scarlet cloth and scarlet colour. Muslim spain was not only a major centre (though far from being the only one) for the production of siklātun, but also a major source of kermes
. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:09, 5 February 2020 (UTC)- @Gerda Arendt: If, like me, you think this connection a bit scholarly, you can always opt for another hook. I like the ants herding the mealybugs, personally. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:39, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
- Fine, can you please word that? Because "mutualistic relationship" is not the same ;) - mutual? - ... but "herded" and "mealybugs are much "catchier"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:45, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: How about ALT4? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:58, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
- Fine, can you please word that? Because "mutualistic relationship" is not the same ;) - mutual? - ... but "herded" and "mealybugs are much "catchier"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:45, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: If, like me, you think this connection a bit scholarly, you can always opt for another hook. I like the ants herding the mealybugs, personally. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:39, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, it's later in that ref. You will also find the same thing in Netherton, Robin; Owen-Crocker, Gale R. (2008). Medieval Clothing and Textiles. Boydell & Brewer. p. 22. ISBN 978-1-84383-366-6.
- Sorry, not quite. No problem with "crimson", but I see the ref for "scarlet" (#23) only until "quę vulgo rasilis …", and until there, see no reference to any insects, nor to kermes. You can tell me that it comes later, and I'll believe you, or explain what I misunderstand. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:33, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
- ALT1:... that some ants herd scale insects (pictured)?
fine if you like it. I added pictured, because I'd have no idea what scale insects are ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:42, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
- The article explains that both the red colour-names crimson and scarlet are related to kermes products, which are made from the tubes created by scale insects. As the article states (with citations) "Crimson" is by etymology cognate with the dyestuff "kermes", both from Arabic qirmizī (for the colour and the insect), while scarlet is from the Arabic word siklāt for luxury silks dyed with kermes. All these things are reliably cited in the article. Hope this helps. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
