Template:Did you know nominations/Palomo

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Alex Shih ^Talk 19:18, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Palomo

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The volcano viewed from the air

... that Palomo (pictured) volcano features a 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) long glacier and that a geologist named a secondary summit after his son, hoping that one day he would get to know the mountains? por otra parte, hacia el sur destaca el glaciar Universidad, de unos 10 km de longitud and El autor propone esta denominacion para este volcan, en atencion a su hijo Andres, en la esperanza de que pueda, algun dia, conocer tambien la cordillera

Reviewed: Mary M. Crawford

5x expanded by Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk). Self-nominated at 19:39, 28 April 2017 (UTC).

The main issue with this nomination is clearly the hook itself. Two hooks have been merged into one, and the first part about the glacier has nothing to do with the latter part about the secondary summit, so it comes off as disjointed. I would recommend that you remove the first part about the glacier because the second half is more interesting, so it reads as something like "... that a geologist named a secondary summit of Palomo (pictured) volcano after his son, hoping that one day he would get to know the mountains?" Also, the image is not used in the article (which would also need a caption), nor has the nominator satisfied the QPQ (reviewing another DYK nomination). Other than those things, the hook is cited in line in the article, but I would recommend that Andrès be spelled consistently with an è throughout the article. The article itself has been 5x expanded recently enough and is well-cited.--十八 20:18, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

@Juhachi: I'll added the QPQ. I'll admit, I wasn't myself certain about which factoid may be more interesting so I just kind of doubled them up. So perhaps this one would work (also replacing "summit" with "vent" and "mountains" with "range" - which is what "cordillera" is usually translated to - as more accurate)? Also, for the image, the hook picture is cropped from the article image. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:37, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that a geologist named a secondary vent of Palomo volcano (pictured) after his son, hoping that one day he would get to know the mountain range?

The ALT1 hook looks good, and thank you for adding the QPQ. However, the cropped image is still technically not used in the article itself. Indeed, why is the much larger view of the Andes mountain range used in the article when you can't even identify Palomo in it without the aid of the crop? I know the caption says it's in the upper left portion, but if you don't know what you're looking for, it's next to impossible to discern. Are there really no other free images of this volcano? If not, I would recommend just using the cropped image in the article, which I see is already being done on three other wikis. And of course, said image still needs a caption in this nomination.--十八 20:09, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
@Juhachi: Added caption and changed image. Obscure Andean volcanoes are not the sort of thing where free images are readily forthcoming. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:11, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Everything looks good to go now for ALT1. Thank you for your time and the various corrections.--十八 20:20, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

I find the hook rather trivial, being about the future of the son of a non-notable geologist. Is there anything more about the 1847 flood that might provide an interesting hook? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:02, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
@Cwmhiraeth: I don't think so unless someone familiar with Chilean history of that time has an idea. I'd argue that the hook was more centered on the peculiar etymology rather than about the person specifically. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:00, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

How about

ALT2: ~~... that the secondary vent of the volcano Palomo (pictured) was named after the son of the geologist who explored it?~~ Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:07, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
To me that seems an idea boring-er than ALT1. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:48, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Well, I don't want to hold it up so I will restore Juhachi's tick, but I think "hoping that one day he would get to know the mountain range" is so trivial and unencyclopedic. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:16, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Both are rather, possibly equally, trivial, but ALT2 is better written. ALT1 reworded might be okay, but all things considered, the better writing of ALT2 should be preferred. --2601:648:8503:4467:BD8D:A6B0:350B:3F11 (talk) 23:18, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

I was thinking that such a personal motive in etymology might be interesting. Perhaps "expressing the hope" is better writing than the current "hoping" of ALT1? JoJo Eumerus mobile (talk) 12:07, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

It falls flat to me. "He had a thought that someone else might like the mountain." It's not science, and, so what, how old is his son, has he been there yet? Nothing. --2601:648:8503:4467:31C4:7809:BB3F:FBC0 (talk) 14:41, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 'sides, hooks do not need to be scientific. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:24, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

I think the so what triviality of it far outstrips the lack of science. Someone named something after their child, ooh, aah. They thought someone might like a mountain, oh, cool. Yawn me to death. --2601:648:8503:4467:B9B8:B797:2E86:AC8D (talk) 15:07, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

This nomination seems to have stalled. What about a new hook?

ALT3 ~~... that the volcano Palomo (pictured) has two calderas at its foot and a double crater at its summit?~~ Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:17, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
@Cwmhiraeth: About as trivial as the previous hook (volcanoes with multiple calderas and craters aren't uncommon), but it doesn't have the "cuteness" factor which is really the reason I like the one about the geologist's son. Now I did recently find this source which mentions that the glacier in question is (or was) the second longest glacier in central Chile, so perhaps that can be used; but I can't add the information to the article immediately. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:13, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Alright, I've added that content so the following hook is now possible:

ALT4 ~~... that Palomo volcano (pictured) features the second longest glacier in Central Chile?~~

While the source is old this one seems to support its assertion for more recent times (since it is added text, asking for another review). Personally I still prefer ALT1 due to the cuteness factor and being a bit more personal and human interest, but I'll leave that to to the reviewer. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:18, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

I rephrased the paragraph because I didn't like the sudden inclusion of the word "was" in a passage in the present tense. However, my rephrasing has rendered ALT4 problematic. How about

ALT5 Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:56, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Review needed of ALT5 hook. Thanks. All previous hooks have been struck for the various reasons listed earlier. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:16, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

This has been sitting here far too long. IMO ALT5 is not so interesting to us non-geological types. I agree with the nominator that ALT1 is more hooky for a general audience, and I see nothing wrong with promoting that. (When they click on the article, readers will get their fill of geology!) So I'd like to go ahead and approve ALT1. Offline hook ref AGF and cited inline. ALT1 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 14:40, 25 July 2017 (UTC)