- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:21, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
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Mormon studies edit
... that according to historian Jan Shipps, the objective tone of the New Mormon historians "made them seem more secular than they actually were"?Source: "most of the historians responsible for the extraordinary outpouring of articles and books in the next thirty-five or forty years were satisfied to write about the LDS past in naturalistic terms that abandoned the notion that Mormonism somehow stood outside (or above) the ongoing stream of human history. Practically none of them rejected the divinity of the origin and work of the LDS Church (or of the RLDS Church, as the case might be), but their accounts had a cool quality that made them seem more secular than they actually were." Jann Shipp's review of Rough Stone Rolling, official journal link here and an open-source PDF here (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)- ALT1:
... that many readers of Mormon blogs see them as a way to democratize Mormon studies?Source: "When asked specifically what effect the blogs had on Mormon studies, most responses ranged from warm to rapturous. In addition to the aforementioned creation of spiritual and intellectual community, a number of respondents were enthusiastic about the bloggernacle’s democratizing effect on Mormon studies." Dialogue article by Patrick Mason - ALT2:
... that in order to write his dissertation on Mormon studies, non-Mormon sociologist Thomas F. O'Dea lived in a rural Mormon town in New Mexico for six months?Source:"Since scholars had already been assigned to work on the first four groups, O'Dea, who knew virtually nothing about Mormonism prior to that time, was assigned the Mormon community. He devoured the literature, wrote an insightful preliminary analysis, conducted interviews with scholars and church authorities, and reached a sympathetic understanding by residing for six months in a "frontier" New Mexico Mormon agricultural settlement. He concluded with a summer teaching assignment at a predominantly Mormon state university (Utah State University)." From Arrington's overview of Mormon studies in the 20th century.
- ALT1:
- Reviewed: Pharmacist-to-pharmacy technician ratio
- Comment: This page existed before, but was mostly a list of scholars, which I moved to a separate list. I added the large history section. I found a URL for my frequently-cited ""Idols of the Tribes: An Intellectual and Critical History of 19th and 20th Century Mormon Studies" source, which I linked on the page, but it is a revised version so the pagination is probably slightly different.
5x expanded by Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk). Self-nominated at 19:31, 26 July 2018 (UTC).
Nice job on the expansion! 5x expansion verified. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. I have a question about capitalization: I understand why you're capitalizing "Church", but why "Church History" (when it's not in the name of the museum)? Images are freely-licensed. QPQ done.- Regarding the hooks, none of them are really attention-grabbing. ALT0 is worded well, but the capitalization of "New Mormon" makes it look like something other than "Mormon" to me; I don't think this term should be used in a hook unless the hook is actually explaining it. "Many readers" in ALT1 seems like a too-broad statement. And we're not going to put a name of someone who doesn't have a Wikipedia page on the main page. Can you come up with something more hooky? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 21:06, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: Thanks for reviewing this long article. I tried to correct my inconsistent capitalization. Which parts of the page intrigued you the most? I think your opinion on what is interesting about the page is closer to the average front page reader's opinion than mine at the moment. I think parts of the LDS Church's backlash against Mormon Studies are interesting but I'm not sure if that would be focusing unduly on negative things. I reworded the first hook below. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 15:51, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
- ALT3 ... that according to historian Jan Shipps, historians writing in Mormon studies in the 1960s and 70s used an objective tone that "made them seem more secular than they actually were"?
- @Rachel Helps (BYU): ALT3 is nice, but Jan Shipps has an avalanche of maintenance tags on it and therefore cannot be linked on the main page. Yoninah (talk) 01:19, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: would it be okay to simply not link to her page? Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 15:12, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Rachel Helps (BYU): no, sorry, we don't put people up on the main page if they're not linked. Surely there's something else you can use for a hook? I'll try to suggest something... Yoninah (talk) 20:23, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
- I haven't read that rule before. Perhaps it should be added to the Supplementary Rules? Here's another possible hook:
- ALT4 "... that previous excommunications of Mormon historians in the field of Mormon studies give scholars the sense that they are being watched?" New Perspectives in Mormon Studies, p. 3. "While readers may become more skeptical, as Thurston points out, scholars themselves also become more wary, self-censoring according to their own calculations of how their publications may affect their access to information in the future. Tales of the excommunication of LDS academics imbue these calculations with an added sense of urgency, a sense (however mistaken or exaggerated) that the LDS Church really is paying attention, and really will respond to whatever one publishes." Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 21:01, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Rachel Helps (BYU): It's one of those unwritten rules promulgated on the DYK talk page.
- ALT4 is very nice.
Can we tighten it a little? ALT4a: ... that previous excommunications of Mormon studies give scholars the sense that they are being watched? Yoninah (talk) 22:07, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
Actually, I understand it has to say they're Mormon because otherwise they couldn't be excommunicated by the church. Let's go with that; I added a few more words to the hook. Offline hook ref AGF and cited inline. ALT4 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 22:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
