Template:Did you know nominations/Megan Marie Hart
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 16:46, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
| DYK toolbox |
|---|
Megan Marie Hart edit
- ... that Megan Marie Hart has performed in Detmold on stage as Puccini's Tosca and was soprano soloist in Mahler's Resurrection Symphony?
- Source: several
- Reviewed: Tibor Kováč
- Comment: the article has a long and complicated history, and in the end I missed the deadline by a day, - hope that can be forgiven - I thought of Christmas
Moved to mainspace by SRomero (talk), OrestesLebt (talk), and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 13:47, 23 December 2018 (UTC).
First, compliments to the authors on reworking an article that was speedy deleted to clearly establish notability and prepare for DYK eligibility. I would forgive the 22 hours past the deadline in any season. The article is easily long enough and presents no policy issues. There was some prose before it was deleted, but the prose portion has been reworked so thoroughly since then that the fivefold expansion is achieved easily. QPQ checks out. The hook is correctly formatted and appears correct, at least as far as I can read the German sources cited. My one concern is that the hook is not terribly "hooky." Surely we can do better than just listing a couple nice gigs of hers? I would be tempted to recommend the business about her television debut in concert before the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu, but (eep!) the cited source doesn't refer to that concert being her debut, or Tutu attending. I invite the nominator and other authors more familiar with the sources to come up with something better (and add support for it in the article as necessary). Lagrange613 04:02, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for a great review, and Happy 2019! - If you look at the talk of OrestesLebt you see that we had the very same thoughts, - a problem of sourcing that. Even people who don't know opera much will know Tosca from crossword puzzles, and perhaps about pure drama, killing a raper and jumping to death. The Mahler II is a pibbacle in many respects. The combination shows that she is active in opera and concert. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:54, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- What about...
ALT1: ... that Megan Marie Hart is active in both classical concert singing and opera, having performed the soprano solo in Mahler's Resurrection Symphony and the title role in Puccini's Tosca in recent years?
- This makes the subtext text, helping most readers understand why it's interesting that she's done both. Lagrange613 02:53, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
- It's on the other hands so common that an opera singer does both - opera and concert - that we don't need to repeat it for every singer in the little room we have. It misses Detmold, hinting at internationality, and promised, I'll expand the theatre article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:26, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
- It's been two weeks since the last activity on this nomination. I thought we were waiting on Gerda to expand the theatre portion of the article, though perhaps I misunderstood. As I see it, I'm just waiting for a hooky hook that hooks the reader. I offered ALT1 but I'm open to any others that can be supported by sources. Lagrange613 04:00, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Repeating, both "Tosca" and the giant symphony are "hooky" without lengthy explanations. What made you expect more? The article is almost too detailed already. If I had found a review of her appearance in Faust, I'd mentioned it. Just listing another role is not adding much. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:47, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Perhaps you misunderstood that I want to expand the Landestheater Detmold? Promised: will be done before this appears. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:48, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, that was the issue. Thank you for explaining. The test of whether a hook is "hooky" is whether it would induce someone visiting the Main Page to click on the article and explore the encyclopedia's newest content. I am conversant in classical/concert singing, having done a fair amount of it myself, so I know the significance of these roles better than the vast majority of people visiting the Main Page. Nonetheless, I would skim right past the original hook. It comes down to the fact that while these are good milestones for her career, they are not out of the ordinary for a singer with a Wikipedia page. To make an analogy, "... that Jens Voigt competed in the 2010 Tour de France?" documents an achievement but is not hooky, but "... that Jens Voigt borrowed a child's bicycle for 15 kilometers of the 2010 Tour de France?" is hooky. I'd like to see something about Hart that stands out from other notable singers and compels the reader to click to learn more. There must be something. Have critics noted anything in particular about her style? Has she given any particularly notable performances (e.g. debuting in front of Desmond Tutu)? Has she cited a particular reason for performing Jewish composers' works? These are just ideas; you and the authors know the sources best and can surely find something. I will leave this nomination open a while longer pending a suitable hook. Lagrange613 03:03, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the explanation, sorry to mean that with a bit of sarcasm (after more than thousand DYK). It's not for April fool. I invite you to approve both hooks or request other eyes. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:27, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- No, I've made clear the problem with this nomination and the the conditions for me to give it a tick. You don't get to shop this to someone else if you don't like the outcome. I've encouraged you or the other authors to use the sources to find a suitable hook and indicated I'll leave it open for a period while you do so. After a thousand DYKs, taking the time to get this one right should not be too much of a burden. But if you're refusing, we can certainly end this early. Lagrange613 12:28, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the explanation, sorry to mean that with a bit of sarcasm (after more than thousand DYK). It's not for April fool. I invite you to approve both hooks or request other eyes. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:27, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, that was the issue. Thank you for explaining. The test of whether a hook is "hooky" is whether it would induce someone visiting the Main Page to click on the article and explore the encyclopedia's newest content. I am conversant in classical/concert singing, having done a fair amount of it myself, so I know the significance of these roles better than the vast majority of people visiting the Main Page. Nonetheless, I would skim right past the original hook. It comes down to the fact that while these are good milestones for her career, they are not out of the ordinary for a singer with a Wikipedia page. To make an analogy, "... that Jens Voigt competed in the 2010 Tour de France?" documents an achievement but is not hooky, but "... that Jens Voigt borrowed a child's bicycle for 15 kilometers of the 2010 Tour de France?" is hooky. I'd like to see something about Hart that stands out from other notable singers and compels the reader to click to learn more. There must be something. Have critics noted anything in particular about her style? Has she given any particularly notable performances (e.g. debuting in front of Desmond Tutu)? Has she cited a particular reason for performing Jewish composers' works? These are just ideas; you and the authors know the sources best and can surely find something. I will leave this nomination open a while longer pending a suitable hook. Lagrange613 03:03, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- It's been two weeks since the last activity on this nomination. I thought we were waiting on Gerda to expand the theatre portion of the article, though perhaps I misunderstood. As I see it, I'm just waiting for a hooky hook that hooks the reader. I offered ALT1 but I'm open to any others that can be supported by sources. Lagrange613 04:00, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- It's on the other hands so common that an opera singer does both - opera and concert - that we don't need to repeat it for every singer in the little room we have. It misses Detmold, hinting at internationality, and promised, I'll expand the theatre article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:26, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
- What about...
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:37, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
On second thought, I will partially acquiesce to the nominator's demand that I approve both hooks and approve ALT1. Lagrange613 12:51, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Please don't strike others' comments. The last icon overwrites earlier ones, so no need anyway, but it's very general advise.
- You can't approve you own hook, and that's why added the icon, sorry for not explaining.
for ALT1 (which I think is needlessly wordy) and/or the original. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:32, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Reviewing hook only. Minor edit to original hook: removed comma and added wikilink. Hook has length 133, ALT1 length 200, prefer original hook, striking ALT1. Looks good to go. Thanks, Zeete (talk) 14:03, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
- Hi, I came by to promote this, but I think the original hook will appeal only to a niche audience that is familiar with these roles. You make a point in the lead of citing her performance of works by Jewish composers. How about crafting a hook around one of those performances, which would certainly elicit interest from a wider readership?
- ALT2:
... that Megan Marie Hart's operatic solos range from Mahler's Resurrection Symphony to the premiere of a new Hanukkah song by Marvin Hamlisch? - ALT3:
... that Megan Marie Hart's operatic solos range from Mahler's Resurrection Symphony to art songs composed by a Holocaust survivor with the classical ensemble Music of Remembrance? - -- or anything else you suggest for the second example. Yoninah (talk) 15:46, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
- The stress on Jewish composers was by the very fist editor, before her operatic career blossomed. Unfortunately, Mahler has not written any opera. For a singer who performs opera - and well if I understand the reviews right - an estimated 95% of her time, I'd like at least one opera, and Tosca is well-known, dramatic, and a short title. It's so well-known that her aria has an article. The word "Resurrection" seems particularly un-Jewish. The songs are also not operatic, no? What would you suggest under these premisses? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:13, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
