Template:Did you know nominations/MV Millennial Spirit
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 04:19, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
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MV Millennial Spirit
... that the Russian crew of the MV Millennial Spirit were shelled and forced to abandon ship by a Russian warship?Source: "the Millennial Spirit, was carrying 600 tonnes of diesel at the time of the attack from a Russian military ship... Moldova's naval agency said the crew of the Millennial Spirit was Russian..." Reuters: Ukraine says two commercial ships hit by Russian missiles near Odessa port- ALT1: ... that the tanker MV Millennial Spirit flew under a Moldovan flag, was crewed entirely by Russians, and was mistaken for a Romanian ship?
- Reviewed: Comtal
- Comment: Yes, this article is related to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. However, a few qualifiers: there is no rapidly changing information; the article has been very stable for the past 6 days since its creation (only a merge of a previous name of the ship_. The information in the article is non controversial and has been corroborated by numerous news sources. Additionally, the article is actually still notable even without the information about the recent shelling (see MV Frigg). I'd be open to holding the DYK for a few weeks (or even months), but I don't see enough information coming out to get the article to GA, and I wanted to nominate while still in the new-enough window. If this won't work I totally understand, but I figured I'd give it a shot because I personally think this article and story is very interesting.
Created by Fritzmann2002 (talk). Self-nominated at 20:09, 1 March 2022 (UTC).
Unfortunately, this is probably still gonna be on hold until the RfC resolves. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 00:22, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
- Reviewing, so far without an icon. Interesting history, on good sources. I like the original hook better, but think "abandon ship" might be too brief (but that could be my lack of English. - In the article, please write more of a summary in the lead, - the detailed measurements are no lead material (but that could be due to me knowing nothing about ship articles). I wonder if the Moldovan flag and new name could be sourced in chronology before the last sentence, - before the shelling. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:41, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Fritzmann2002, Theleekycauldron, and Gerda Arendt: - Even with the RFC now closed to allow these hooks, this one is still problematic. The article now says that the crew was predominantly Russian, which doesn't square well with the current hooks, as ALT0 implies all-Russian, and ALT1 explicitly says that. Additionally, the Russian crew bit of the hook is sourced to WP:METRO, which is a tabloid-style source listed as generally unreliable at WP:RSP. Note also that the RFC close notes that extra care should be taken with conflict-related hooks. Hog Farm Talk 18:16, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Hog Farm: The following sources corroborate that the crew was Russian:
- Reuters ("the crew of the Millennial Spirit was Russian")
- US News ("the crew of the Millennial Spirit was Russian and that two of them had been seriously injured")
- Marine Log ("Additional unconfirmed reporting has indicated that the vessel had a crew of 10, all of whom are understood to have been Russian nationals")
- ABC Australia ("the crew of the Millennial Spirit was Russian")
- Trade Winds Global Shipping News ("Officials said that two of its 10 Russian crew members were seriously injured and that Ukrainian rescue crews had responded")
- Pretty much all the media outlets reporting on this incident state that the crew were Russian. I believe they took the lead from the Reuters article, which is certainly reliable. I'm more than happy to change up the wording, and since these sources seem better than the current one (thank you for the catch there) I'll be adding them to the article shortly. By all means, please do tear apart the article; the topic certainly warrants a high degree of scrutiny. @Gerda Arendt: I'll hopefully get to the lede later tonight, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by your last sentence? I want to make sure I understand correctly. Fritzmann (message me) 23:51, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- I would recommend using one of those sources to rewrite the Metro-sourced statement in the article of predominantly Russian, then, so that the hook is consistent with the article content. Hog Farm Talk 04:03, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Pleased with the response. - I mean that we read that it was shelled, and only afterwards about something that must have happened before: new name, new flag. I wonder if that could be told in chronological order even if the transfer is unclear. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:44, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt and Hog Farm: I've updated the article with a better lede, chronology, and references. Please let me know what else still needs attention. Fritzmann (message me) 14:04, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Fritzmann, thank you for the changes. I prefer the idea of the original hook, but would don't know if we can say the crew wawere shelled (vs. the ship was), and the repetition of "ship" in the end. Could that be rephrased, and possibly with a link to abandonment of ships? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:11, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- How about
- ALT0a: ... that the MV Millennial Spirit (pictured) was shelled by a Russian warship, forcing its Russian crew to abandon ship?
- or for more topicality
- ALT0b:
... that during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the MV Millennial Spirit was shelled by a Russian warship, forcing its Russian crew to abandon ship?Fritzmann (message me) 17:20, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
thank you, and formatted a bit. I prefer the former of those two, and approve the cautious one as well, but like ALT0a better. Hog Farm, what do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:48, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Fritzmann, thank you for the changes. I prefer the idea of the original hook, but would don't know if we can say the crew wawere shelled (vs. the ship was), and the repetition of "ship" in the end. Could that be rephrased, and possibly with a link to abandonment of ships? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:11, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt and Hog Farm: I've updated the article with a better lede, chronology, and references. Please let me know what else still needs attention. Fritzmann (message me) 14:04, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Hog Farm: The following sources corroborate that the crew was Russian:
- Reviewing, so far without an icon. Interesting history, on good sources. I like the original hook better, but think "abandon ship" might be too brief (but that could be my lack of English. - In the article, please write more of a summary in the lead, - the detailed measurements are no lead material (but that could be due to me knowing nothing about ship articles). I wonder if the Moldovan flag and new name could be sourced in chronology before the last sentence, - before the shelling. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:41, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
