Template:Did you know nominations/London Has Fallen
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by Allen3 talk 11:37, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Insufficient progress toward resolving outstanding issues
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London Has Fallen edit
- ... that the currently in-production film London Has Fallen will have a Christmas break from November 2014 through February 2015 during filming?
- Comment: It is also marked as a New article, because it was existed as a redirect before expansion.
5x expanded by Captain Assassin! (talk). Self nominated at 01:58, 28 October 2014 (UTC).
- Capt. A -- This is my second comment on a nom of yours today, and I don't want to come across as a Negative Nellie. But really -- isn't there something more interesting to say than that the cast and crew will be taking a break? EEng (talk) 05:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
- Actually it isn't your 2nd, it is your 3rd comment on my three DYK noms just within 30 minutes. And the hook is interesting for now, but yes there is another interesting thing about this film is that lead actor Butler is going to join filming in February, who is currently filming Geostorm. --Captain Assassin! «T ♦ C ♦ G» 10:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:27, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
@Captain Assassin!: could you please explain your basis for a 5x expansion? When you started expanding the page on October 25, the character count stood at 850. Today it is 2587 characters, which is not a 5x expansion. If, however, you are starting the expansion with User:Obi-WanKenobi-2005's edit on October 24, then it is a 5x expansion over the redirect. In the latter case, you would have to add User:Obi-WanKenobi-2005 to the creation credits. Yoninah (talk) 23:37, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- Actually that's not a problem, I'll add Obi-WanKenobi-2005 to the creation credit. But if you are not willing to take the review with 5x expansion then it should be taken as a new article. Because the actual article started on October 25, and I nominated it on October 28. --Captain Assassin! «T ♦ C ♦ G» 02:20, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- Yoninah, there's another issue, in that the "new" version is reusing a significant amount of text that was in the pre-redirected version. When text is reused from any Wikipedia article, it needs to be 5x expanded even in a new article, and the Plot section is identical: 594 prose characters for that alone, and there's a bit more prose that survived in the intro and the Production section. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:23, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- @Captain Assassin!: according to the page history, the article was moved from your draft space into mainspace on July 5, which is the effective creation date, not October 25. The 5x expansion from a redirect was started with User:Obi-WanKenobi-2005's edit on October 24.
- @BlueMoonset:, comparing the state of the page before everything was redirected on September 29 with the way the page looks today, 900 characters (the entire Plot paragraph, one sentence under Production, and two parts of a sentence in the lead) were duplicated from the pre-redirect version. Are you saying that the new article has to be 900 x 5 = 4500 characters long? Yoninah (talk) 21:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) 4500, Yoninah, yes. And the July 5 creation date as well. However, this is a truly weird article history:
- July 5: Captain Assassin! creates the article in a sandbox at 15:34, requests that it be moved to mainspace, which happens at 17:49, and then Captain A makes it a redirect at 18:04.
- August 18: 26 minutes before midnight, Johntyler249 replaces the redirect with a much-expanded article, and makes several edits along with a couple from BattleshipMan over the next 13 hours; 9 hours after that, Betty Logan returns it to redirect status
- September 29: in the same minute, BattleshipMan replaces the redirect with a further expanded article, and then reverts to the redirect
- October 24: an hour before midnight, Obi-WanKenobi-2005 starts the article anew; it is expanded by BattleshipMan and Captain Assassin! to beyond its previous size over the next three and a half hours, inserting wording from previous mainspaced iterations; additions made after October 25 are mostly to the bulleted Cast section, which don't count as prose.
- So prior to its resurrection on October 24, the article had spent about 22 hours and 18 minutes as an active mainspace article. In effect, the article was being improved using mainspace, and then redirected, probably because it hadn't yet started filming. My feeling is that these appearances in mainspace do count so far as DYK is concerned, especially as the article was deliberately moved to mainspace initially, and was being worked on there twice, but you may feel this perfectly reasonable and deserves DYK consideration invoking IAR. I should point out that there is always the possibility of a DYK-qualifying GA appearance down the road, though that is of necessity close to a year away at least, after the movie's release in fall 2015. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:12, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Captain Assassin!, as Yoninah noted, because of its history the article does not qualify for DYK at this time, since it's using pre-existing text and there is not enough reliably sourced information available to expand it sufficiently. Its best hope is to become a Good Article and be renominated for DYK then, which can only happen after the film has been released because of GA requirements. To avoid this situation in future, articles should remain in Draft space until they're ready to be made permanently available in mainspace. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:49, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
