- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by BobAmnertiopsis∴ChatMe! 14:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
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Knaack club edit
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that the closure of the 58-year old Berlin club Knaack, named after a German communist, was attributed to the effects of capitalism?
- Reviewed: Feliks Młynarski
Created by Valenciano (talk). Self nominated at 08:45, 14 June 2014 (UTC).
- OK. It's new enough, and long enough, and et cetera. It's also interesting, and I wonder if I may have been there one wild night just after the Wende. But I find the hook, the capitalism bit, too much of a stretch. Sure, it's all capitalism in the end, but gentrification can happen in communist countries as well. I suggest you rephrase that part of the hook. "Gentrification" is easily verified, of course, but something involving rising property values may still keep the communism/capitalism play in the hook. Drmies (talk) 03:20, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
- Drmies, thanks for reviewing that. I was trying to produce a hook with the capitalism / communism thing, as I thought that a little ironic. Gentrification and rising property prices don't really cut it as well. Could be an ALT hook then connected with another event, say Rammstein playing some of their earliest gigs at the venue? Valenciano (talk) 10:58, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
- Oh, I know exactly what you were trying for, and it's a great idea--and I wish I could just send it on. From Communist resistance fighter to gentrification still contains the ideological elements, but the reader will have to peel them out as if the hook were an onion; it's probably not something readers of the younger generation will do. Rammstein, or whatever, that's just so...normal... Why don't you play around with it a bit and see if you can make something out of it? Or maybe a DYK expert like Soman can come up with something? They probably went clubbing there in their student days... Drmies (talk) 14:59, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
- Sadly, nothing else comes to mind. I'll give it a day to see if anyone else weighs in and if not then it'll just have to be a bland hook. Valenciano (talk) 15:20, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
- Oh, I know exactly what you were trying for, and it's a great idea--and I wish I could just send it on. From Communist resistance fighter to gentrification still contains the ideological elements, but the reader will have to peel them out as if the hook were an onion; it's probably not something readers of the younger generation will do. Rammstein, or whatever, that's just so...normal... Why don't you play around with it a bit and see if you can make something out of it? Or maybe a DYK expert like Soman can come up with something? They probably went clubbing there in their student days... Drmies (talk) 14:59, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
- Drmies, thanks for reviewing that. I was trying to produce a hook with the capitalism / communism thing, as I thought that a little ironic. Gentrification and rising property prices don't really cut it as well. Could be an ALT hook then connected with another event, say Rammstein playing some of their earliest gigs at the venue? Valenciano (talk) 10:58, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
- Well, if some grammatical license is allowed...
- ALT1:... that the 58-year old Berlin club Knaack, named after a German communist, was gentrified out of its formerly punk/bohemian neighborhood? Drmies (talk) 18:58, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
- That would work. Much appreciated, thanks! Valenciano (talk) 20:13, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
- I think that the Rammstein angle is better than the gentrification issue (which is a more complex feature). My proposal for
- ALT2 would be ... that Rammstein played one of its first concerts at the Knaack club, named after a communist resistance member? --Soman (talk) 06:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks Soman, that's possible, though I tend to agree with Drmies that the Rammstein angle is less interesting than the history of the club. A lot of clubs have famous bands which played there in their early years, but there are not so many clubs whose history lasts for nearly six decades and spans most of the period of communist East Germany and the 20 years after that. Valenciano (talk) 09:30, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Above review of "new enough and long enough" by Drmies still stands; I guess I get to do the et cetera. QPQ done. I have struck the original hook as per the above consensus. The age-of-club and named-after-Knaack parts of ALT1 both check out online with German-language citation #2 (using Google Translate). The gentrified-out bit of ALT1 is borne out by online German-language citation #11 (with Google Translate). Re ALT2, Rammstein is supported by online German-language citation #4 (with Google Translate), and the rest of the hook by online citation #2 as for ALT1 above. Toolserver is down so the following two checks are manual. No disambig links found. No problems of access for most external links, but see issue 1. There are two images on Commons which are suitable for this article: File:5BUGS.jpg and File:Schrottgrenze Knaack Berlin 2007.jpg. For a commonscat, you can use {{Commons category|Knaack club}}. The text is objective and neutral, and is fully cited. Checks of external links for possible copyvio and close paraphrasing found none. Issues: (1) Citation #1 is a deadlink.(2)"It is expected to reopen in 2016" should be corrected to something like "As of 2014 it was expected ..." so that the text does not become outdated in future years. When issues 1 and 2 are resolved, this nom should be OK. (Adding a note to myself to state that ALT1 is preferred by the nominator). --Storye book (talk) 15:51, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
- Storye book, I've fixed those issues, added the image and replaced the dead link with another link. Valenciano (talk) 17:17, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you, Valenciano. There's a few ways you could improve the professional appearance of the article, though this is not a DYK requirement. I suggest that above the second paragraph of the History section, you add a new subheading e.g. "Closure"; and above the last two paragraphs you add a subheading e.g. "Re-opening". The extra subheadings will force an automatic index and assist further editors to write their stuff in the correct section. You could also add the parameter |250px to the image formatting, because it's OK to have a fixed-size image at top right of the article. If you would like an infobox, there is apparently no nightclub infobox, but some nightclub articles (e.g. Ministry of Sound) use Template:Infobox company. I'm just including this in case it is useful; you don't have to do it. --Storye book (talk)
All issues resolved. Green tick is for German language citations used with Google Translate. ALT1 is preferred by nominator, and ALT2 is OK too. Good to go. --Storye book (talk) 09:08, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks Soman, that's possible, though I tend to agree with Drmies that the Rammstein angle is less interesting than the history of the club. A lot of clubs have famous bands which played there in their early years, but there are not so many clubs whose history lasts for nearly six decades and spans most of the period of communist East Germany and the 20 years after that. Valenciano (talk) 09:30, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
- That would work. Much appreciated, thanks! Valenciano (talk) 20:13, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
