- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by EEng (talk) 15:11, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
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Kenton Grua edit
... that in 1977, Kenton Grua was the first person in recorded history to walk the entire length of the Grand Canyon along the Colorado River?
Created by Green Cardamom (talk). Self nominated at 14:22, 22 July 2014 (UTC).
New enough, long enough, hook cited to offline source taken in GF -- I can personally vouch for the nominator. Haven't checked copyvio/paraphrase but this editor is above suspicion. Citing and NPOV fine. EEng (talk) 03:33, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
- Thinking it over, "recorded history" sounds a bit stiff. Howzabout:
ALT1 ... that in 1977 Kenton Grua became the first person known to have walked the entire length of the Grand Canyon along the Colorado River?
Also, is the "along the Colorado" really telling us "below the rim" or something? If so I think that might be clearer. Otherwise I was thinking, "Gee, are there parts of the G.C. that aren't along the Colorado?" EEng (talk) 18:17, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
- "Known to" works also is simple and short. I liked "in recorded history" better as it seems to give credit to Indians who probably did it before, without sounding overtly PC. Got it from one of the sources. I initially had "below the rim" but that's misleading since one could travel close to the rim and get resupplied from above which is a different kind of trip, so saying along the Colorado is more accurate since he walked near and resupplied from caches left along the river. Yes the GC has many side canyons not along the river which saying "rim" might confuse. -- GreenC 18:56, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
- Hmmm. As often happens it's more complicated than it seems at first. My only real concern is the "along the Colorodo River" because (perhaps because of my own insecurity about knowledge of US geography) I really began to wonder if I was confused about how many rivers were involved. How about "along its river" (not so good...) or ... oh... I don't know. I'll bet there's some geological term for this, actually -- some kind of "zone"? Not a big deal, but can you check the sources? I didn't see anything at Grand Canyon. (BTW, can you really walk below, but close to the rim? Pardon my ignorance.)
- There is only one river in the Grand Canyon, the Colorado created the canyon, it's at the bottom of it (in all senses). It's a desert region. The river originates in the Rocky Mountains far away. The Colorado is the primary water outlet for one of the largest snow covered mountain ranges in the world. Since the river is so large (in the spring), and there is no soil to hold things in place in the desert and the river is over 50% silt it erodes through the ground more than usual, thus a grand canyon formed. The side canyons are just local erosion when there's a rare rainstorm (but they cause catastrophic erosion when they happen). There are terraces at different levels it's not a straight drop, depending on the hardness of the rock layers. -- GreenC 21:51, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
- Hmmm. As often happens it's more complicated than it seems at first. My only real concern is the "along the Colorodo River" because (perhaps because of my own insecurity about knowledge of US geography) I really began to wonder if I was confused about how many rivers were involved. How about "along its river" (not so good...) or ... oh... I don't know. I'll bet there's some geological term for this, actually -- some kind of "zone"? Not a big deal, but can you check the sources? I didn't see anything at Grand Canyon. (BTW, can you really walk below, but close to the rim? Pardon my ignorance.)
- "Known to" works also is simple and short. I liked "in recorded history" better as it seems to give credit to Indians who probably did it before, without sounding overtly PC. Got it from one of the sources. I initially had "below the rim" but that's misleading since one could travel close to the rim and get resupplied from above which is a different kind of trip, so saying along the Colorado is more accurate since he walked near and resupplied from caches left along the river. Yes the GC has many side canyons not along the river which saying "rim" might confuse. -- GreenC 18:56, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
How about
ALT2 ... that in 1977, Kenton Grua was the first person in recorded history to walk the entire length of the Grand Canyon along the river?
I hope I'm not seeming dopey here. EEng (talk) 22:06, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's great. Another alt would be "..to walk through the entire length of the Grand Canyon?" The added "through" makes it more like walking in the canyon not on its edge. Since it's a hook they can find out by clicking through to the article. -- GreenC 23:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
- You have hit it precisely. Walking along a canyon is altitudinally ambiguous, but through can only mean generally near the bottom.
- ALT3 ... that in 1977, Kenton Grua was the first person in recorded history to walk through the Grand Canyon for its the entire length?
- Such a pleasure to work with someone who's willing to work to get it just right without letting his authorial vanity get in the way. See User:EEng#Another_wise_man_once_said.... EEng (talk) 00:19, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- You have hit it precisely. Walking along a canyon is altitudinally ambiguous, but through can only mean generally near the bottom.
- Hey, why don't you add the Anasazi granaries image to the hook? I don't know the syntax. EEng (talk) 05:00, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
ALT3 is fine and so is the picture if you want to use it. Belle (talk) 07:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
