Template:Did you know nominations/Das Wandern ist des Müllers Lust
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 18:31, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
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Das Wandern ist des Müllers Lust
... that the poem "Das Wandern ist des Müllers Lust" ("To wander is the miller's delight") was first set to music by Schubert, but became popular with the melody by Carl Friedrich Zöllner?Source: several
- Reviewed:
to comeTemplate:Did you know nominations/Corbin Building
- Reviewed:
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 09:32, 4 August 2020 (UTC).
- @Gerda Arendt: please remember that a QPQ is still outstanding here. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 02:33, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Instead, I decided to upgrade Joseph Joachim while he was on the Main page, and didn't get to Klaviermusik mit Orchester while Leon Fleisher is on the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: the "... became popular with the melody by Carl Friedrich Zöllner" seems a too absolute qualification. I assume that world-wide (that is, beyond the Austrian/German-speaking context) the over-all popularity of the text came about by Schubert's setting, not Zöllner's. Which is also a criticism of the article content and its references: for English Wikipedia one would need at least a solid reliable source claiming that the rise in popularity of Müller's poem via Zöllner's setting *also* applies to the English-speaking world (which would, on first sight, seem highly questionable – as in WP:REDFLAG). --Francis Schonken (talk) 06:54, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- ALT1: ... that the poem "Das Wandern ist des Müllers Lust" ("To wander is the miller's delight") was first set to music by Schubert, and became a popular German Volkslied with the melody by Carl Friedrich Zöllner?
- Better? - Folk song isn't quite de:Volkslied, though, a song everybody sings, as opposed to art song, and our redirect on mentions it in passing. We seem to have Volksmusik for a better link, but that only covers the music from Alpine areas (misleading title, I'd say), and no Folk music in Germany. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:25, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Volkslied is a redirect. It redirects to Lied#History – which makes [[Folk music|Volkslied]] (as proposed in ALT1) totally unsuitable for mainpage... One of these objectionable WP:EGG things. The Volksmusik article and Volkslieder redirect seem even more off-topic, and, as unsorted mess, unsuitable for mainpage. Proposing,
- ALT2:
... that "Das Wandern ist des Müllers Lust" ("To wander is the miller's delight"), a poem by Wilhelm Müller, was, apart from its inclusion in Schubert's schöne Müllerin, also famously set by Carl Friedrich Zöllner?
- ALT2:
- --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:53, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- While I see your point, I believe that ALT2 has to many clauses for Main page style, and misses the key aspect of the difference of high art to everybody sings it. I may write an article Volkslied, or Wanderlied, which is not the same as de:Fahrtenlied, - even the German Wikipedia misses that, by only offering a redirect. ALT2 also assumes that reaaders know who Schubert is and what Die schöne Müllerin, while some of our audience will not even know that he is a composer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:01, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Volkslied is a redirect. It redirects to Lied#History – which makes [[Folk music|Volkslied]] (as proposed in ALT1) totally unsuitable for mainpage... One of these objectionable WP:EGG things. The Volksmusik article and Volkslieder redirect seem even more off-topic, and, as unsorted mess, unsuitable for mainpage. Proposing,
- This is taking too much of my time, sorry about that. Let's summarize: I can not support this DYK nom in any guise or form as long as the "Das Wandern ist des Müllers Lust" article still needs so much work, that is, apart from content and reference issues (as mentioned above), also grammar issues and other typos. Imho this DYK isn't going anywhere. --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:39, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- I'm back. I said rather on top that my focus was elsewhere. I reviewed now Template:Did you know nominations/Corbin Building. I don't think the article needs reworking regarding popularity, - it says that it became popular as a Wanderlied, no more. How is this:
- ALT3: ... that "Das Wandern ist des Müllers Lust" ("To wander is the miller's delight"), a poem by Wilhelm Müller, became a German art song as the beginning of Schubert's Die schöne Müllerin, and a popular Volkslied set by Carl Friedrich Zöllner?
- I will try to make Volkslied an article rather than the sad redirect. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:44, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- Again, the main problem lies within the article, and its inadequate sourcing (tagged now). Hence, also, "... a popular Volkslied set by Carl Friedrich Zöllner" is not covered by any reliable source afaics. Basis of the problem is, of course, AGAIN, inherited from German Wikipedia. I've had this conversation with Gerda a few times before: German Wikipedia is not a reliable source. In words she says she agrees. In deeds, she keeps translating German Wikipedia articles as if they were reliable sources – without checking, without adjusting if the text of the German Wikipedia article is not adequately covered by reliable sources. She slaps on some sources, and doesn't care whether or not these sources actually & reliably cover the German Wikipedia's text or its translation. That's what I have no time for any more, thus opposing also ALT3 (and don't think I'll agree with any future ALT before the article's issues are sorted). --Francis Schonken (talk) 04:28, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Francis, did I even claim it's ready yet? No, I nominated when I had to, and then had more important topics to deal with, that can't be postponed. Patience please, I'm still behind on things with a deadline, which this is not. And I have nominations open that are much older, - potential reviewer: please look there. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:47, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- I think I fixed the things that raised concerns. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- Again, the main problem lies within the article, and its inadequate sourcing (tagged now). Hence, also, "... a popular Volkslied set by Carl Friedrich Zöllner" is not covered by any reliable source afaics. Basis of the problem is, of course, AGAIN, inherited from German Wikipedia. I've had this conversation with Gerda a few times before: German Wikipedia is not a reliable source. In words she says she agrees. In deeds, she keeps translating German Wikipedia articles as if they were reliable sources – without checking, without adjusting if the text of the German Wikipedia article is not adequately covered by reliable sources. She slaps on some sources, and doesn't care whether or not these sources actually & reliably cover the German Wikipedia's text or its translation. That's what I have no time for any more, thus opposing also ALT3 (and don't think I'll agree with any future ALT before the article's issues are sorted). --Francis Schonken (talk) 04:28, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: please remember that a QPQ is still outstanding here. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 02:33, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
Full review needed. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:32, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
The article is new enough and long enough. The hook facts are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. I do not speak German, but I see that the nominator made a number of alterations to the article after Francis Schonken's comments above. Approving ALT1 and ALT3 as meeting DYK criteria. A QPQ has been done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:33, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
