Template:Did you know nominations/DailyFlag for DailyBread
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by Miyagawa (talk) 18:18, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
DailyFlag for DailyBread edit
- ... that DailyFlag for DailyBread is a community art installation by residents of the Beach neighborhood in Toronto, Canada, in which participants create Advent flags that are auctioned online for charity to benefit the Daily Bread Food Bank?
Created/expanded by Nancarrowiki (talk). Nominated by Northamerica1000 (talk) at 01:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Not all paragraphs are sourced. DYK 2 One inline citation per paragraph — Maile (talk) 20:27, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
- Updated: I've added more citations to the article. Each paragraph now has at least one source. Northamerica1000(talk) 05:46, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Needs a full review. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:59, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
I did a second review of the article, fixed some minor issues and added a citation for one uncited part that one of the article's current references would cover. The article itself is fine but the hook is way above 200 characters and needs to be trimmed. I have a suggestion for an Alt below. AgneCheese/Wine 19:05, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Alt1... that DailyFlag for DailyBread is a community art installation of Advent flags that are auctioned to raise money and awareness for food and hunger issues in Toronto?
- The concept of advent flags is unknown (I believe) outside of this project: the phrase will therefore be meaningless to all readers who do not live on those two streets. Kevin McE (talk) 19:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Pardon? That's pretty incredulous. Advent flags (or Advent tapestry) have been around nearly forever in churches and religious schools and community. My childhood Lutheran church in Missouri still have their advent flags from the founding German immigrants brought from their original church in Germany to this country almost two hundred years ago. They hung them from the rafters until the 1970s when they became too torn and tatter so the Lady's Auxillary group created new ones. Even today you can buy Advent tapestry at nearly any religious shop AgneCheese/Wine 19:37, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Nope: never (and my comment would be incredible: you may be incredulous of my ignorance of the concept). And that is after fifteen years as a priest in a series of parishes with a strong ecumenical commitment. I would also point out the absence of a wiki article on the subject, or any mention of the words flag, banner, tapestry or pennant in the article Advent: this is indeed the only article in the whole of en.wikipedia that uses the phrase Advent flag, while none use Advent tapestry. I happily acknowledge the tradition in your own experience, but it is far from a universally known concept. A UK only Google search has a front page that only has one relevant site: a local website publicising the Daily Flag for Daily Bread, prompted by the fact that one of the main people involved in the DF for DB project is an ex-resident of that part of south London and posts on that blog. LImit "advent flag" to a phrase, and there is only one page of UK returns.Kevin McE (talk) 21:40, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Again, I can't help but find your singular experience (or lack of experience) with the concept of Advent flags/tapestries/banners/canopy, etc (they're all the same thing with different faiths and cultures using different terms) to be surprising since they are so widespread. Heck even the first google link when searching for "Advent banner" is from the UK (for a kids community project no less) with several other links to Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist and Christian non-denominational sources. This concept is certainly not new and is as old as vestments and altar linens. So you have honestly never been in a church that had seasonal banners hung on the walls, rafters or behind the altar? For Advent, Pentecost, Easter Week, etc? AgneCheese/Wine 22:13, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Please accept that the concept is not as widespread and globally recognised as you believe: if we post the phrase Advent flag on the main page it will be outwith the experience of a huge proportion of readers, and there is no explanation of the term to link to. Yes, I have seen/purchased/clambered up ladders with liturgical banners: they are liturgical displays used in places of worship, not domestic decorations, and the vocabulary you propose fails wp:engvar. The purpose of an encyclopaedia is to inform, not to bemuse. Kevin McE (talk) 22:24, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- I will concede that a culture difference (UK vs North America) is probably coming into play since the proliferation of non-liturgical faiths here has broaden the vocabulary and connotation of many religious terms. In North America, particularly the US, you do find liturgical items in domestic settings with the vast majority of religious shops open to the public. While some denomination-affiliated shops at least limit vestments and sacrament supplies to clergy and church sales only, that is not universal with all shops. Often any person off the street can go in and buy even communion wafers to snack on (granted, they won't come "pre-blessed" or transubstantiated for you but still). And yes, people can buy Advent tapestries to use as domestic decoration or make their own. While this cultural use of Advent flags/tapestries/banners might not be familiar to you, I'm sure there are many things that fall outside the anglo-centric worldview. Besides, if the term "Advent flag" is so objectionable, it is an easy fix. (See alt below) AgneCheese/Wine 23:01, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Religious suppliers don't "ban" any potential customer to the best of my knowledge, any more than cycling shops ban skateboarders from buying helmets there, but they don't promote themselves to them. Yes, of course there are things outside an anglo-centric world view: many of our readers see things from that, or other non-North American, experiences. You have dealt with the engvar issue adequately below (but I still have the article AfDed as non-notable) Kevin McE (talk) 23:44, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- I will concede that a culture difference (UK vs North America) is probably coming into play since the proliferation of non-liturgical faiths here has broaden the vocabulary and connotation of many religious terms. In North America, particularly the US, you do find liturgical items in domestic settings with the vast majority of religious shops open to the public. While some denomination-affiliated shops at least limit vestments and sacrament supplies to clergy and church sales only, that is not universal with all shops. Often any person off the street can go in and buy even communion wafers to snack on (granted, they won't come "pre-blessed" or transubstantiated for you but still). And yes, people can buy Advent tapestries to use as domestic decoration or make their own. While this cultural use of Advent flags/tapestries/banners might not be familiar to you, I'm sure there are many things that fall outside the anglo-centric worldview. Besides, if the term "Advent flag" is so objectionable, it is an easy fix. (See alt below) AgneCheese/Wine 23:01, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Please accept that the concept is not as widespread and globally recognised as you believe: if we post the phrase Advent flag on the main page it will be outwith the experience of a huge proportion of readers, and there is no explanation of the term to link to. Yes, I have seen/purchased/clambered up ladders with liturgical banners: they are liturgical displays used in places of worship, not domestic decorations, and the vocabulary you propose fails wp:engvar. The purpose of an encyclopaedia is to inform, not to bemuse. Kevin McE (talk) 22:24, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Again, I can't help but find your singular experience (or lack of experience) with the concept of Advent flags/tapestries/banners/canopy, etc (they're all the same thing with different faiths and cultures using different terms) to be surprising since they are so widespread. Heck even the first google link when searching for "Advent banner" is from the UK (for a kids community project no less) with several other links to Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist and Christian non-denominational sources. This concept is certainly not new and is as old as vestments and altar linens. So you have honestly never been in a church that had seasonal banners hung on the walls, rafters or behind the altar? For Advent, Pentecost, Easter Week, etc? AgneCheese/Wine 22:13, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Nope: never (and my comment would be incredible: you may be incredulous of my ignorance of the concept). And that is after fifteen years as a priest in a series of parishes with a strong ecumenical commitment. I would also point out the absence of a wiki article on the subject, or any mention of the words flag, banner, tapestry or pennant in the article Advent: this is indeed the only article in the whole of en.wikipedia that uses the phrase Advent flag, while none use Advent tapestry. I happily acknowledge the tradition in your own experience, but it is far from a universally known concept. A UK only Google search has a front page that only has one relevant site: a local website publicising the Daily Flag for Daily Bread, prompted by the fact that one of the main people involved in the DF for DB project is an ex-resident of that part of south London and posts on that blog. LImit "advent flag" to a phrase, and there is only one page of UK returns.Kevin McE (talk) 21:40, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Alt2 ... that DailyFlag for DailyBread is a community art installation of banners for Advent that are auctioned to raise money and awareness for food and hunger issues in Toronto?
- Article currently at AfD; review is on hold until AfD concludes. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:37, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Nomination withdrawn. The geographic depth of news coverage about the topic appears to be insufficient, per the AfD discussion occurring for the article. The article appears very likely to be deleted at this time. Northamerica1000(talk) 11:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)