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Template:Did you know nominations/Crown Pop

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 17:50, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

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Crown Pop edit

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  • ... that the nickname for Crown Pop fans is poppers? Source: [1]

Created by Moscow Connection (talk). Self-nominated at 23:58, 23 December 2018 (UTC).

  • Article is new enough, long enough, adequately sourced, with the hook being interesting and cited inline. The hook is AGF accepted based on a Japanese source (though Google Translate seems to confirm it). A QPQ has been done; however I am concerned that it is too short as it appears to not have explicitly assessed all of the criteria. In addition, there's an inconsistency with the article: the History section uses MDY, but the members section uses DMY; please stick to one format instead. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:29, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
    • Done, please check. I chose to use the DMY format because otherwise the members section would become messy, there would be too many commas. --Moscow Connection (talk) 11:48, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
Noted. This should be good to go then. I'm also proposing the alternate wording below Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:43, 26 December 2018 (UTC):
ALT1: ... that the nickname for fans of the Japanese idol group Crown Pop is "Poppers"?
That looks good. But I don't think "poppers" should start with a capital letter. And I'm not sure about the quotation marks. --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:48, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Isn't Poppers supposed to be a proper noun, in this case? And quotation marks are standard fare at DYK, from experience. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:32, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
It looks like you are right:
Nicknames are capitalized everywhere. Okay then. I like your your version. --Moscow Connection (talk) 05:04, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
By the way, I still wasn't sure about the quotation marks, but a Google News search for "called Beliebers" returned some articles that used them. So I guess it's correct with or without. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:58, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
I've just made the new version more prominent by adding "ALT1" in bold. --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:12, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but I fail to see what's hooky about it. It's like something you'd read in a girls' magazine. Yoninah (talk) 23:29, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
  • I thought the original short version was intriguing. --Moscow Connection (talk) 04:53, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Same, I honestly fail to see how it's not hooky. It's a really catchy hook if anything, and in my case at least quickly caught my attention. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:00, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
On the other hand, I originally intended to review this, but found it so lacking in imagination—frankly, so fucking uninspiring— that, had I carried out the review, I would've outright failed it on that account. I chose to move on, but the fact that my concerns have now been shared should be food for thought. ——SerialNumber54129 11:31, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
  • I am honestly not familiar with the group at all and had never even heard of them before this nomination, so I can't really help out much here. With that said, what about this possible suggestion?
ALT2 ... that the Japanese idol group Crown Pop was formed with the goal of "working hard to polish dance skills in order to grab the entertainment world's crown"?
Another suggestion I had in mind involved how they were discovered from a pool of junior HS and high school students who had been scouted, but I don't know how that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:02, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't why you link to your CSD log! ALT2 is truly excellent, excellent; I like the junior high suggestion too, but recognise the difficulty in getting a hook out of it. Perhaps Y might have an idea on that? ——SerialNumber54129 14:16, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Well, I find the whole article fluff, and the hook ideas more so. Perhaps if a "Reception" section were added it would give the article some gravitas; right now all it is, is a rundown of their music. Yoninah (talk) 18:45, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
I've added a short "Musical and lyrical style" section.
My other ideas for the hook would be the 29 June 2017 entry in the Jawiki article (but I couldn't find a single reliable third-party source mentioning that) and the fact that the group didn't have a name for several months (but it would seem too ORish). --Moscow Connection (talk) 21:01, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
@Moscow Connection: Do you have a possible source for that, about them not having a name for several months? That might be a possible way to move forward here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:52, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
No, I'm afraid I don't. All I have is a Crown Pop blog post [2] that says that when the group's name wasn't yet decided, it was known as "芸能２部レッスン場". --Moscow Connection (talk) 15:23, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
I've found a better source, an interview with the members: [3]. But there are no dates. --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:00, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
The article can probably be expanded using a Natalie.mu concert report: [4]. But it's just a song-by-song report, not really a critical review. So I don't know how I can use it. --Moscow Connection (talk) 15:23, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
@Moscow Connection: With the sources available (I think the blog post could be accepted as a primary source), possible suggestions here could be something along the likes of "... that the Japanese idol group Crown Pop was originally created without a name?" or "... that the name of the Japanese idol group Crown Pop was not decided on until after they had made their major debut?" @Yoninah: Thoughts on this wording? And Moscow Connection, if you can find a source on it, perhaps some information on why they were named "Crown Pop" in the first place could work as a hook too? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:04, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
  • I think the 2nd suggestion is good. Yoninah (talk) 10:36, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
  • The second suggestion is incorrect cause the name of the group was decided long before their major debut. Anyway, I've returned to the English Wikipedia. Let's find some wording that works. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:09, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
  • As far as I can see from the Japanese Wikipedia article, the name of the group was announced ("made public"?) at their first concert. Will that fact be okay for DYK? I think I can find a source for that. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:20, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
    Update. No, that fact is also incorrect cause I've found a Twitter post [5] announcing their appearance at that event. And as you can see, the name of the group was already known at the time cause the Twitter account name is "crownpop_staff". --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:33, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
  • I think something like this would be correct:
That's according to this interview → [6] and also to this official blog post → [7] (there is a photo which description reads "We announced the group's name!"). The official blog post also says it was the group's first live event. --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:04, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
I've just added this information to the article. --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:33, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
I like ALT2 as well but I'd like to hear what Yoninah thinks about it. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:55, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Yes, ALT3 (renumbered) is the best option so far. Let's go for it. Yoninah (talk) 11:59, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. Approving ALT3. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:08, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
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