Talk:Vocaloid/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Removed wikify tag

I have removed the wikify tag for this article. As it is now, there is nothing to wikify; it is to short for structuring, and practically everything that can be linked is linked anyway (except Yamaha, none of the companies mentioned currently have articles, nor have the virtual singers). Besides, it is tagged as a stub anyway.—Graf Bobby 16:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Delisted by google?

I see no substantiation, not even a link to the BBS site claiming this. Unless links are added, I will remove the note in a day or two. Anaholic 15:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

It's all over the Japanese internet, look harder. -Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.185.178.184 (talk) 13:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Mistake in name origin explanation

The name of the title and the character of the software was chosen by combining Miku (未来, Future), Hatsu (初, First), and Ne (音, Sound).

Something is wrong here. Miku does not mean 未来/future. The first word can be:

ミク, miku, (no meaning as far as I know, but could come from an onomatopoeia, mikumiku)

未来, mirai, future

So what could this be? Someone please check this =) (unsigned, KevinJr42)

I just looked into it; so far, I think "miku" is another reading for 未来.

I *did* look at the reference, I didn't say this earlier. It doesn't seem to say anything about the origin of the name.

I think it should still be confirmed and cleared up on the article.

KevinJr42 (talk) 06:44, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, 未来 can also be read as "Miku", though no one in their right might would pronounce it this way unless they were told to via the use of furigana since you are also right that it's read as "mirai" meaning "future". The developers just did it this way to give her name a double meaning I suppose.--十八 07:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I heard that 'Miku' is a shortened katakana of 'microphone.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.138.255 (talk) 21:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

未来 is read as "mirai" generally, but Kanji, used as name, can be read other way. In this case, “来” can be read as “ku” because “来” is used for “来-る” (ku-ru, means “come”). According to Crypton’s blog, they named her for possibility of the future of music. So, “mikumiku” comes from her name Miku.--219.165.62.141 (talk) 00:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Is it Miku Hatsune or Hatsune Miku (ordering)? I've seen both. Or does this matter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.11.4 (talk) 02:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Listing Vocaloid versions

Generating a compilation list of vocaloid versions. There's:

• Miriam
• Zero-G

Before this article tangents off as anime related, best to focus on it as a software package. KyuuA4 (talk) 21:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Silly me. Already mentioned in prose. KyuuA4 (talk) 00:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Notes

Random snippets: Miriam Stockley is the first well-known singer to undergo the Vocaloid sampling technique, allowing anyone with a PC to install her as a virtual instrument. [1]

KyuuA4 (talk) 21:18, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

What about the others?

This article lists only Miku, Rin and Len, but there are other Vocaloid programs as well. If I could find a source, I'd put in something on Prima, Sweet Ann(English), Lola, Leon, Meiko(Japanese 00), Kaito(Japanese 00) and that other one I don't know the name of, but I have failed to find a source or information beyond their names for the most parts. This -- http://www.crypton.co.jp/mp/pages/prod/vocaloid/ has info on the programs, but I can't read Japanese...

~ Mew Blackberri —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.96.183.29 (talk) 05:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

More info on Vocaloid Engine

Rough draft.

Reference 'DTM magazine' January special issue ‘the VOCALOID CV01 Hatsune Miku’

Yamaha’s attempt at vocal synthesis started with PLG100-SG, a formant singing sound source. The Vocaloid engine shares the same concept but uses a different synthesis method. The Vocaloid engine contains all the phoneme of a certain language, and determines how the phonemes are linked during singing and synthesizes the vocal output. In order to produce a Vocaloid vocal library, a special lyric which lists all possible phoneme connections is sung at several scales. The recording of the vocal library in Japanese took 6 hours. The recordings do not contain all possible musical scale. The Vocaloid engine compensates by adjusting the pitch to meet the scale and connecting the phonemes smoothly so it sounds natural. All phoneme connections are synthesized by the Vocaloid engine even if the exact musical scale for that connection exists in the vocal library.

The name Vocaloid, is a coinage of vocal and –oid(resembling). --Fortifiedchicken (talk) 12:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Hatsune Miku as a separate article?

Even though Hatsune Miku is based on Vocaloid, I think the popularity of Hatsune Miku on the Internet should warrant its own separate article. Also many people on the Internet may also know it as Hatsune Miku, linking it to Vocaloid would confuse a lot of people. Sepiraph (talk) 00:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Linking it here doesn't change anything. The information is still being presented, and the fact that Miku doesn't have all that info to her name is no reason to split it into a different article now. Not to mention that doing so will most likely breed fancruft due to her Internet popularity. And no one's going to get confused because Hatsune Miku and Miku Hatsune link to her section on this article. On top of that, you're initial split was only had a couple KB long, and typically splits don't occur unless the material has become long enough to warrant a split. Plus, if you make one for Miku, there's bound to be others who would want to create one for Rin/Len, and they don't even have a good amount of info on this article, let alone enough for a split.--十八 02:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

It should be noted that both the Japanese and the Chinese Wikipedias have a lengthy and fully cited article on Miku and Rin/Ren. The potential for expansion and splitting certainly exists. _dk (talk) 03:33, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Separation will eventually be necessary as a Character Vocal Series, due to the nature of the Vocaloid software. Vocaloid may be the synthesizing engine of the software, but the main element of the Vocaloid series software (from LOLA to Big Al) is in the vocal library. It’s more like the Vocaloid being a sampling technique and the vocal library being the instrument. Some notes on Hatsune Miku should remain in the Vocaloid article, the reason being that it was CV01 that made the Vocaloid software recognized among computer music users as well as others including the major news media in Japan. And this thing about breeding fan cult is exactly why it shoud be in a different article. The fan cult or derivative works, did not breed because of Vocaloid, it developed because of the nature of the vocal library, the instrument which happens to have an anime-type mascot. Fan cult is no reason not to create a separate article, unless a Wiki rule for bans on 'Fan Cult' exist. But shortness is.--Fortifiedchicken (talk) 09:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Fancruft, not "fan cult"; and while there is no direct policy against it, Wikipedia does have an essay on it; see WP:FANCRUFT.--十八 10:09, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

If you want to expand on the derivative work of Hatsune Miku, including the two Mangas which are not `official` products, although approved by Crypton, I think you must do that on a separate article. Because the derivatives are huge. For example derivative characters of Hastune Miku includes: Hachune Miku (an official derivative character created by a user) and several unofficial ones (such as Yowane Haku and Akita Neru) with widely accepted character traits, personal items, favorite words and backgrounds. Remember that Crypton gave only limited background for the CVS characters, and as for Lola, Meiko, Sweet Ann, there are almost none. The popularity of the mascot (not the software) is undeniable. An official Hatsune Miku figure by Good Smile Company has pre-orders of more than 40,000, scheduled to ship around the end of May, surpassing the total sales of `The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya' series produced by the same company. However, excluding some anime and Vocaloid fans, Hatsune Miku as well as Vocaloid itself isn't commonly known in English speaking regions. Meaning that no major news organization has featured `Hatsune Miku` yet. Even in Japan, for a computer music software, yes it is popular (30%share), but the computer music software market is not that huge a market to begin with. I think finding sources in English will be difficult. By the way, some of the citations on the Japanese Wiki are from blogs (Crypton's official blog) and second hand sources. Someone would have a field day if it were in the English Wiki.--Fortifiedchicken (talk) 09:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

If you can provide enough good information and sources to back up all these claims (probably a lot of the sources from the Japanese wiki page), then I suppose it can't be helped. But bear in mind that most of the cruft (unofficial creations and references to Internet memes or youtube/niconico videos) will be deleted.--十八 10:09, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The issue on separating Hatsune Miku from Vocaloid. Crypton used the word Vocaloid as a coinage of vocal-android (written on the software package), which differs from Yamaha’s original naming of Vocaloid (see the coinage above). So, when we’re talking about Yamaha’s Vocaloid, it’s a software singing synthesizer. When we talk about Hatsune Miku as a Vocaloid, it could mean a singing android, or software that uses Yamaha’s Vocaloid engine. It might be confusing. --Fortifiedchicken (talk) 20:27, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Second issue, on deletion. My point is that writting about the mascot or the phenomenon of derivative works being created seems off topic for a Vocaloid article. 'Characters of CVS' article might suit it. As a derivative mascot officially recognized by Crypton, Hachune Miku has a manga and is included in the model by Good Smile Company. Original songs, user made illustrations, and animations reflected Hachune and other derivative creations. And it's interesting but, I don't think it has anything to do with Yamaha's Vocaloid software. It's probably too early to write about those thing on any Wiki anyway. But, if someone wants to do it, I think a new article is the right place. Sources: Preorder on Amazon.jp reaches 10,000 in two days, http://www.itmedia.co.jp/news/articles/0711/27/news111.html http://www.j-cast.com/2007/11/28013890.html market share reaches 30% http://bcnranking.jp/news/0709/070927_8497.html http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=72882642822469&mkt=ja-JP&lang=en-US&w=d6648e4f&FORM=CVRE7 Software term of license: non-commercial use of mascot image, rules on commercial distribution of derivative works http://piapro.jp/a/contents_guideline/ commercial distributions of original Hatsune Miku songs begin http://japan.cnet.com/mobile/story/0,3800078151,20361804,00.htm tool to make Hatsune Miku dance http://www.itmedia.co.jp/news/articles/0803/10/news020.html Hatsune Miku sings theme song of PS2 game. http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/games/articles/0712/04/news093.html--Fortifiedchicken (talk) 20:27, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Gackpoid

This was announced on May 7th, 2008. It will be available in the middle of June.

• ANN article: [2]
• Original source (Japanese): [[3]
• Streaming sample: [[4]

--azure ^{talk × contribs} 15:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

That merely uses the Vocaloid technology; it's not like it's a part of the character series ala Miku and Rin/Len.--十八 21:03, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Remove Tags?

I submit that the citations needed and original research tags be removed. The article now has 19 citations, with good references. What sort of research does the article contain, that it needs an original research tag? 74.61.24.207 (talk) 05:54, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Lucky Star

Should we mention something about Kagami Hiiragi cosplaying as Miku in the upcoming Lucky Star OVA? Mew Mitsuki (talk) 23:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think this is something really notable that should be added. In fact, I was surprised it hasn't been added yet. G0rth0r (talk) 02:12, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

?

Shouldn't Hatsune Miku be changed to Miku Hatsune? Moocowsrule (talk) 23:59, 28 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

This hasn't really been discusssed before, but it was once changed in the past to Miku Hatsune, but was changed back to Hatsune Miku because she's a personification of a music program, or something like that.--十八 02:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

If we refer to the Vocaloid mascot as Hatsune Miku, then we must refer to the prime minister of Japan exclusively as Abe Shinzō, which we do not. Although it is common in Japan to refer to people last name first, the accepted standard on the English (and other European languages) Wikipedia is to refer to them in Western name order (eg Thierry Henry, Shinzō Abe). Therefore, we must refer to her as Miku Hatsune to conform to standards. Also, isn't Sony the maker of Vocaloid? CJ Miller. (^{That's my name.}_{Don't wear it out.}) 03:03, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

What I meant to say above is that Hatsune Miku is not a person, but the name of a trademark/product, which under MOS:JP#Names of companies, products, and organizations should not be changed.--十八 05:28, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

But there is no official romanization. All that states is "Honor the romanization used officially by that party...". There is no official romanization. It just has "初音ミク". Oh wait. Sorry. Just looked at the main page, and yes it does have "HATSUNE MIKU" written down. Sorry for my edits... I didn't look at the page. Should be more careful about that stuff... Moocowsrule (talk) 01:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

Just a rumor, but...

A lot people on Youtube and such believe that Meiko is the female singing at the beginning of Susumu Hirasawa's "The Girl in Byakkoya" and I wanted to know if anyone had any confirmation of this. It would be big if a major artist was openly using Vocaloids in their music. Faiyafish (talk) 23:21, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Someone deleted everything with little to no reason or discussion, changes undone

whatever just happened, it obviously had little to no reason to be done, with the information being neither moved, nor having a reason for deletion. Changes undone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LuminousPath (talk • contribs) 21:22, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

It was just vandalism; you don't have to write a note about it.--十八 03:37, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Zoku Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei

I watched the episode referenced by this page where Miku, Kagamine Rin and Len appear. Only Miku appears on the show trying out for Meru's voice. Does this mean Kagamine Rin and Len have not appeared in an anime to date? 67.149.124.111 (talk) 06:29, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Kagamine Rin and Len do appear, in the long line of tryouts. Their colors are very off however, with red hair and blue clothes. 24.0.186.109 (talk) 04:54, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Kanji meaning for 巡 in 巡音?

From what I understand, the meaning of 巡 is closer to "surround" than to "round" as the article suggests. See [5]. Since the previous Vocaloid names have (loosely) indicated some aspect of the product (初 for first; 鏡 for the twins) a meaning that suggests the all-encompassing aspect of her bilingual database seems more likely.Can anyone more literate in Japanese confirm the kanji's meaning? Jyuichi (talk) 03:07, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

巡音 is to mean "巡る音" according to the creator. [6] 巡る音 means "sound that goes around" so "around" seems to be more suitable than "surround" here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.150.15.174 (talk) 05:31, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Around is suitable yes, but at the time I posted that, the article said "round". It has sense been changed to circulate which is suitable. :) Jyuichi (talk) 02:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Siblings

I heard a rumor that Meiko and Kaito were brother and sister. I personally see no evidence to this, but I wanted to know if anyone out there had anything about that. Mew Mitsuki (talk) 20:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)