Talk:Train game

Discussion

I think that the limited definition of a train game given in this article is not completely warranted. For one, it is hardly settled among the community of gamers, despite what seems to be implied in the article. It is not infrequent to see arguments at boardgamegeek.com over someone trying to impose just such a limited distinction. Second, some of the links used do not support it. The Traingamers Association does not use this narrow definition. Their Puffing Billy tournament happily includes "train themed" games that do not meet this definition. The Chatanooga Railgaming Challenge also does not limit itself in this manner, either. Though not mentioned, RailCon also does not use this limited definition.

On a more asthetic note, I find it odd that Wallace's Age of Steam is pictured, but does not have a spot among the categories listed in the article. There are far more games that would be in this general group than in the lame roll-and-move category which contains what is essentially a single entry. Of course, the inclusion of Rail Baron as a train game while excluding many others is questionable in itself.

I suppose it should be pointed out that any article on train games would be incomplete without mentioning Winsome Games given their position in the hobby. Unfortunately, they don't share the same definition of a train game used by this article, which may explain their absence. I suppose you could mention Mayfair Games as well, but again, their definition of train game does not match well here either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seppo21 (talk • contribs) 15:37, February 16, 2009

Your points are well taken. The advantage of the definition used in the article is that it is relatively clear and precise. If there is a consensus that it is too limiting, then maybe we could include train-themed games as a subcategory or variation. The issue is similar to the one that comes up regarding wargaming, which is also debated from time to time at BGG. Are Risk, Axis and Allies, and Memoir '44 true wargames, or simply "war-themed" games? --Jcbutler (talk) 22:11, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the over-limiting parts of the current definition are that it requires operation (not just building) of a train network and that it demands that the games be economic and use money. The unique feature of a train game is that one establishes a network of track between goal points, usually cities. This opens the door not only to the Ticket to Ride series, but also Stephenson's Rocket, On the Underground, Metromania, TransAmerica/TransEuropa, and others; however, it keeps the door closed on the Mexican Train game, Monopoly, and other games which just use trains as a theme element. --Laguna CA (talk) 03:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Wow, it's hard to believe that it has been nearly a year since my original post here. At any rate, I would argue that the definition cited is not particularly clear or precise. Suppose, for argument sake, that it is both of those things. If it is inaccurate, the precision and clarity is still of little use.

I think your comment regarding Risk, et al is very much appropriate. If I wanted to determine if those games were considered wargames by that community, I would head over to Consimworld.com and see what they say. After all, those folks are far greater experts on wargaming (being a more narrowly focused community) than BGG in general (which is a more broadly focused community). For the record, both Memoir 44 and Axis & Allies, as well as some versions of Risk, are placed in the wargame forums at consimworld.

In the same way, I would check out what groups of self-described train gamers thought should be included in that category. As previously mentioned, there are several of these groups that clearly define train games in a broader manner, i.e. the train gamers association, both Winsome and Mayfair games, and the "train gamer" tournaments you mention. Are there any similarly broad groups that define train games narrowly? Honestly, it baffles me how one can cite the Puffing Billy tournaments as being for train gamers when 4 of 9 categories of games they use do not meet the defintion that is being promoted. If you combine the 2 18xx categories and the 2 crayon rails categories, there are really only 3 of 7 categories that meet the defintion of this article. That's not even half. Seppo21 (talk) 21:24, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I can't, now, take on rewriting the whole article, but I support you doing so, Seppo21. As an additional resource, consider the games BGG categorizes as train games (adv. search, category=trains). Laguna CA (talk) 23:58, 20 July 2012 (UTC)